That me all be true but I will still take the view through the SV over the EII anyday. It didn't take me long to decide between the SV, SE and EII. The SE and EII went on E-bay. I really think the love of the porro's is motivated by their price but I understand that. They are losing their edge to the new stuff and the gap is going to get wider with the new Zeiss SF. The Big Guns are putting their research and development dollars into the roofs.
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Have you discarded the Porro ? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Torview
- Start date
Torview
Well-known member
Maybe its time somebody told you how utterly rude you are when repeatedly inferring price motivates every forum members choice to not buy an SV.
I welcome and enjoy discussion and sometimes heated debate over the optics we choose but too many times you`v insulted members of this forum by vulgarly mentioning affordability.
People choose binoculars for many reasons, and if asking for advice within a budget no problem, mention price, but don`t insult a persons choice assuming you know their finances.
Better to tell us why you prefer the SV over a good porro, I`v read no substance from you on that subject.
I still live in hope of finding something useable in this field.
Sadly the Habicht with its chronically short ER is not for me.
There are too few choices for those of us in the UK ; and all roofs. The Opticron Imagic BGA SE 7x42 is still available as a silly-not-to-buy roof, and I like it a lot, a very good binocular for the money despite it's daft follow-my-Zeiss naming, and one to keep. It's easy enough to find new 'old-stock' Swaro 7x42 SLCs and 7x42 SLC Neu, but for an Alpha Times Seven Winter Bright the only option is the Nikon EDG 7x42. Not a Porro amongst 'em.
Sadly the Habicht with its chronically short ER is not for me.
There are too few choices for those of us in the UK ; and all roofs. The Opticron Imagic BGA SE 7x42 is still available as a silly-not-to-buy roof, and I like it a lot, a very good binocular for the money despite it's daft follow-my-Zeiss naming, and one to keep. It's easy enough to find new 'old-stock' Swaro 7x42 SLCs and 7x42 SLC Neu, but for an Alpha Times Seven Winter Bright the only option is the Nikon EDG 7x42. Not a Porro amongst 'em.
Dennis,
The "Big Guns" have been putting their research and development dollars into the "roofs" for the last 30 years.
Bob
jaymoynihan
Corvus brachyrhynchos watcher
jaymoynihan
Corvus brachyrhynchos watcher
Torview
Well-known member
The Vixen 7x50` meant to be pretty special.
http://www.binomania.it/binocoli/Vixen_Foresta_7x50/vixen_foresta_7x50.php
http://www.binomania.it/binocoli/Vixen_Foresta_7x50/vixen_foresta_7x50.php
bh46118
Well-known member
I believe the love of Porro's has more to do with the 3D image they provide that a roof just isn't capable of. I've seen the latest EL 10X42, and I agree that it has a spectacular view, but don't you think a lot of the exorbitant cost is created by all of the hoops that have to be jumped through to overcome the deficiencies in the roof design ? The SV view with 3D, that would be a sight to behold, too bad it ain't ever gonna happen.:C
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brocknroller
porromaniac
You're preachin' to the choir. Been giving this spiel for years on BF. Except for a half dozen or so porromaniacs like myself, the message hasn't gotten much traction.
Alpha prices continue to climb, and people keep reaching deeper in their pockets, thinking that the incremental increase in performance from the latest bells and whistles (or re-badged bells and whistles, as the case may be) will take them out of the cycle of binosamsara and on to the eternal bliss of binonirvana. But it never lasts, as soon as The Next Greatest Thing comes along, they're back in the cycle.
But it's the same on any consumer product site you visit, be it cars, trucks, boats, bikes, motorcycles, and yes, even lawnmowers. Lest I sound self-righteous, I should disclose that I watch BBC's "Top Gear" each week. More for the wacky antics of the hosts than reviews of the latest premium autos from Detroit and Europe, since it's not always about automotive innovations. These guys are about my age, so it's often about old cars and sometimes even about econo-cars.
However, being that the BBC buys or leases the cars reviewed, there is the inevitable segment on a Ferrari, BWM, Jaguar, Rolls, Porsche, etc. I tolerate those segments to get to the rest of the show or go find something to eat in the fridge.
Even though I prefer the Porro view, there are some affordable roofs such as the 8x30 M7 (if you can find a non-defective sample) that are filling in where Porros once excelled - providing a "good bang for the buck."
There's also the expanding second-tier segment where companies aim to be near the top, but at half the cost or less.
So there's some hope for birders on a budget and the next generation of birders looking for decent optics that won't get them in debt over their heads. Sort of a half full, half empty thing.
I think it's great to have roof choices at various price points, but I do mourn the death of the premium Porro.
IN MEMORIAM
Nikon Superior E: 1995-2014
Nikon EII: 1999-?
You can continue this memorial by adding your favorite Porros now found only in Simon S's collection and in the Fan Tao Binoculars Museum.
<B>
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Sandy Leng
Well-known member
I thought I'd just recount a conversation I had this morning while out birding.
Him - "You've had those binoculars a while (my Nikon 8x30 E11's),
you ever thought of getting something like these?" (Swarovski 8x32 Swarovision mega bucks)
Me - " No I'm really happy with these, ever looked through a pair?"
Him - "No, can't say that I have, lets have a gander then"
Me - "No problem, here you go"
Him - "Jesus these are good!!! can't believe what a wide view they've got. I always thought these old binoculars had had their day. I'm really impressed, reckon the view is as good as through my bins!!"
Me - "Check the reviews on Bird Forum mate, thats what I did before I bought these. Best thing I've ever bought"
Says it all really, Birders in the UK hardly ever use Porros now. I really don't know why, as not many use their bins in heavy rain anyway. Only real advantage a roof has got I reckon
Sandy
Him - "You've had those binoculars a while (my Nikon 8x30 E11's),
you ever thought of getting something like these?" (Swarovski 8x32 Swarovision mega bucks)
Me - " No I'm really happy with these, ever looked through a pair?"
Him - "No, can't say that I have, lets have a gander then"
Me - "No problem, here you go"
Him - "Jesus these are good!!! can't believe what a wide view they've got. I always thought these old binoculars had had their day. I'm really impressed, reckon the view is as good as through my bins!!"
Me - "Check the reviews on Bird Forum mate, thats what I did before I bought these. Best thing I've ever bought"
Says it all really, Birders in the UK hardly ever use Porros now. I really don't know why, as not many use their bins in heavy rain anyway. Only real advantage a roof has got I reckon
Sandy
perterra
Well-known member
Marketing at it's best.
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It's not rude it is just a fact that price is a factor in most peoples decisions in what type or brand of binoculars you buy just like anything you buy. The value factor of the porro's is and always will be a big reason for buying them. You get more "Bang for the Buck" with a porro than you do with a roof. A lot of people like porro's because they represent more value and that is all I'm saying. I don't think they would even sell any Nikon 8x32 SE's or EII's if they cost as much as an alpha roof. They don't sell very many porro's at the $500 to $700 they charge now.
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BruceH
Avatar: Harris Hawk
Some may buy a Porro for the excellent value it represents, but the love of a Porro for many is motivated by the view it provides. You have been on this forum long enough to know the history of posters to this thread discussing the positive features of a Porro. Therefore you know that many own high end binoculars, so it was not money that motivated them to purchase a Porro.
The new Zeiss SF (yet to be released) may turn out to be the best roof yet, but it will never be able to provide the same view of a Porro. As discussed above, the Porro gives a greater apparent depth of field and more realistic scaling of the subject. A roof will not be better to those who prefer the Porro view.
Torview
Well-known member
Surely if they are losing their edge (then you mean they`re still ahead !) in that case the gap will get smaller ?
I dunno, Dennis. I change my mind a lot, but I´m losing interest in "premium" roofs. I´ve been through them all, except the HT. I spent a lot of time comparing my SV (8x32) to the EII (8x30), and both are beautiful. Obviously the choice of preference is entirely subjective, but I couldn´t really discern any difference in resolution with any of my amateurish charts, or magazine pages for that matter, set up at various distances outdoors. I did discern a slight CA-ish tinge around very distant flying birds in the EII (Jackdaws at 2km), that the SV didn´t show, but that was about it. I preferred the FOV, 3D and colour rendition of the EII. I don´t know if the EII will give a backight-haze that I once saw in appalling weather conditions in the SV, but the SE didn´t. Neither bino was "better", but my personal preference was for the EII. I subsequently sold my SV, bought a 2nd-hand SE (8x32) and EDG (8x42). The EDG is a slight cut ahead of the EII and SE, presumably because of the larger objectives, and obviously waterproof, but it´s heavier, and I tend to take the EII´s or SE´s out more. I´m not a typical user though, as I don´t go birding much anymore, and as I say I´ve lost interest in premium roofs generally as I have more than enough glass. It does strike me though that there will always be another premium roof on the way, but the SE´s and EII´s will soon be gone forever.
Curiously, (for me, at least) the short (13mm, I believe) eye relief of the EIIs never bothered me at all and on most other binoculars I need at least 16mm to be comfortable.
I don't know why that should be. I also have no problem with the even shorter eye relief on my Model 804 Swift 8.5x44 Porro prism.
Could it be because they are both Porros?
Bob.
I don't know why that should be. I also have no problem with the even shorter eye relief on my Model 804 Swift 8.5x44 Porro prism.
Could it be because they are both Porros?
Bob.
Me neither, Bob. No problem with eye-relief on EII or SE, but I have deep eye-sockets, and don´t wear specs anymore since getting laser-treatment. Actually found that the Habicht 8x30 had a bit too much eye-relief, despite the specs, and had to hold them a bit too far away from my eyes, letting light in around the eyecups.
A question - are Opticron the only people now making an 8x42 porro, the HR WP? I´ve read good reviews about this model, but have never seen one. Looks very nice, although FOV is a bit tight at 6.4 degrees.
(Edit - a quick googley throws up Celestrons, Bushnells, Visionary, VK´s and Nikon Aculons in this configuration also).
A question - are Opticron the only people now making an 8x42 porro, the HR WP? I´ve read good reviews about this model, but have never seen one. Looks very nice, although FOV is a bit tight at 6.4 degrees.
(Edit - a quick googley throws up Celestrons, Bushnells, Visionary, VK´s and Nikon Aculons in this configuration also).
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perterra
Well-known member
I think Leupold still has one.
