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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Crystalline clarity of the HT ? (1 Viewer)

I doubt that anything has changed with the 8x54 HT. Zeiss didn't think there was a problem back when I did those tests.

Here's a link to a comparison between the 8x42 HT and my 8x42 and 8x56 FLs.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=313034

IMO, what keeps those two HTs, as well as the Swarovski 8x30 Habicht I recently bought, from achieving something I would call "crystalline clarity" are axial aberrations that are a bit too high, particularly spherical aberration. They look fine compared to each other or to binoculars with similar or higher aberrations, but they all lack the highest degree of center sharpness, even for my quite average 20/15 acuity. To notice that you need to use a reference optic (like the 8x56 FL) with lower aberrations for comparison.
 
Hi Henry,
Is this because the objective focal lengths of the smaller binoculars are not long enough to reduce axial aberrations?
 
Well, all of the binoculars I've mentioned, large or small, start with such high spherical aberration at full aperture that even when they're stopped down to 20mm in daylight the image degrading effect of the residual aberration is still a bit above the threshold of visibility for someone with at least 20/15 acuity like me. The reference standard I use (the 8x56 FL) also has high aberrations at full aperture, but it cleans up just well enough at 20mm for the effect of its residual aberrations to fall below the threshold of visibility at my acuity.
 
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Hey all,

Was in the store the other day and looked thru the 10x42 HT's so I could see the brilliant sparkle that dominates this forum. Never could find it.!!!.. maybe you don't get to see sparkle when viewing in the store?

What I did notice, when looking at an elk (full body mount, maybe 30'-45' away) is that the image looked like I was viewing a poster (meaning it was completely one dimensional and void of any three dimensional quality). Viewing things farther away wasn't as bad but still not so good.

Could cry more but not going to go there. I guess I don't get the 10x and this sparkle thing...

CG
 
In terms of crystal clarity, sparkle, brilliance, transmission, luminescence, etc, does the HT exceed SV, SF, FL, different varieties of Leica, or anything I'm missing ? I assume the Habicht would equal or exceed the HT, but eye relief rules it out.

Robert

Exceeds the UVHD+, SV, SF, and FL, have not used the Habicht.

Hey all,

Was in the store the other day and looked thru the 10x42 HT's so I could see the brilliant sparkle that dominates this forum. Never could find it.!!!.. maybe you don't get to see sparkle when viewing in the store?

CG

I think that description has accompanied comments about the 8x42 HT, not so much the 10x42.
 
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I doubt that anything has changed with the 8x54 HT. Zeiss didn't think there was a problem back when I did those tests.

Here's a link to a comparison between the 8x42 HT and my 8x42 and 8x56 FLs.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=313034

IMO, what keeps those two HTs, as well as the Swarovski 8x30 Habicht I recently bought, from achieving something I would call "crystalline clarity" are axial aberrations that are a bit too high, particularly spherical aberration. They look fine compared to each other or to binoculars with similar or higher aberrations, but they all lack the highest degree of center sharpness, even for my quite average 20/15 acuity. To notice that you need to use a reference optic (like the 8x56 FL) with lower aberrations for comparison.
I have to disagree with you on the Habicht 8x30 W. I find it has the most "crystalline clarity" of any binocular I have ever used and I have owned the 8x56 FL. I was going to the chiropractor for weeks after I got rid of it. In fact I always found the porro's like the Nikon SE and the Swarovski Habicht to be clearer and more transparent than any roof prism and I also have the 10x50 SV to compare it with. A porro is simpler with less optical surfaces so there is less chance for aberrations if the optics are good than a more complicated roof. I am sure as perfectly made as the Habicht's objective lenses are I highly doubt you are seeing spherical aberration. Maybe you are seeing more chromatic aberration in the Habicht than in your 8x56 FL. The Habicht does show a little CA. The Habicht is one of the sharpest binoculars I have ever seen on-axis.
 
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I don't think that the Habicht employs aspherical optics.

Binoculars would probably be better with f/6 objectives instead of f/4.
But eyepieces would be larger and wide fields difficult.
Also people would not buy these longer binoculars.
 
In terms of crystal clarity, sparkle, brilliance, transmission, luminescence, etc, does the HT exceed SV, SF, FL, different varieties of Leica, or anything I'm missing ? I assume the Habicht would equal or exceed the HT, but eye relief rules it out.

Robert

WOW! Whoooooeeeeee! what a fascinating journey of amusing, largely subjective commentary, of a cat chasing its tail you have inadvertently unleashed Robert - I think we'd have better luck trying to define the best method for tracking Unicorns leaping over the pot of gold at the end of double rainbows! ........ :cat: :bounce: (o)<

A lot of the terms you have quoted don't actually exist outside of someone's errant definition and application to that weird dimension known as binoworld !!

I think you've got the wrong end of the stick with some of them, mixed a few metaphors, and the rest apart from transmission (which can be measured), are highly subjective :eek!:

Even the measured transmission curve over the visible spectra must then be interpreted by an individual's eyes, physiological pathways, and neural network and programmed life experiences and latent soul calling! So even this has a subjective component - colours etc o:D

To try and sort the wheat from the chaff of subjective definitions and how they apply to binoworld, I will offer the following definitions (some with reference to dictionary sourcing, and/or common usage here on the Forum) ..... others of course may (and probably will) disagree! However given that the etymology of many common 'sayings' is rooted in practical wisdoms ingrained in the cultural vernacular through the spoken word inheritance over many many generations, often with real life and death ramifications, we should take some heed to observe, pay our due respects and endeavour to standardise ours. :t:

1. "crystal clarity" ...... to me exists as an abbreviation or form of the common term "crystal clear". Not to be confused with the 'crystalline' view (of which Swarovski's SV product range is a prominent example).
The Oxford dictionary defines "clarity" as: "The quality of being clear, in particular - "
1.2 The quality of being easy to see or hear; sharpness of image or sound:
the clarity of the picture, and
1.4 The quality of transparency or purity:
the crystal clarity of water.

This can also be described as "transparency" in my view. It is possible for a binocular to exhibit "clarity", "transparency", or be "crystal clear" over a portion of the view - typically the centre, without being entirely crystal clear or entirely transparent over the entire field.

Prerequisites for "clarity" or "transparency" are (but probably not limited to) :-
* Porro I, Porro II, or A-K prisms ....... nothing else cuts the mustard in my view (I haven't seen Perger prisms so can't offer comment there)
* High Transmission ...... I'm thinking 92%+
* Neutral Colour Rendition (ie. a flat transmission curve) ...... faithful colurs and true whites - no colour tints of any kind allowed here!
! NOTE ! All the other commonly referenced colour qualities of 'sparkle-arkle', 'vividness', 'saturation', 'Pop', and even 'crystallinity' by definition stem from transmission and control of glare and CA, since nothing is able to be added from the environmental view, only 'detracted' through losses, which must somehow show up as 'crudola' to the view.
* No Aberrations - Spherical, Chromatic, Astigmatism, Coma, Distortion, Field Curvature, of a magnitude to cause awareness and distraction, and assuming sufficient collimation and alignment.
* Glare Control ...... sufficient so as to offer an absence of presence of Glare (Veiling and/or Crescent), or other reductions in, or deleterious effects on Contrast etc
* Sharpness of image (resolution and contrast MTF )..... many times the resolution of the toughest critic with the best eyesight, ie. an absence of awareness of any issue.

OK, so this is achievable somewhat in the centre field. Bins that I have seen with this quality are the Swift Audubon 8.5x44 ED Porro, the Zeiss 8x42 HT (A-K), and the Canon 15x50 IS -Porro II (so long as the IS is not turned on, where I then detect 'artefacts' that mar the view). Interestingly the A-K Swarovski SLC x56 (HD)'s neve did it for me.

To combine this "clarity" or "transparency" over the whole field of sufficient AFov such that no restriction is registered (for me that's 70 degrees plus), whilst ensuring Glare Control and its dichotomous partner luxurious "Randpupille" is to achieve the "Holy Grail" o:D of binoculars - sadly :-C I've never ever seen it --- still questing! :))

2. "sparkle" ..... this is a misnomer in my view, since the Oxford dictionary defines this as: "Shine brightly with flashes of light:
her earrings sparkled as she turned her head"
....... I highly doubt that 'flashes of light' is at all desirable. Its better I think to term the intention of this descriptor as:
"sparkle-arkle" a term familiar to Australians, and is something like a relaxed and perhaps cheeky 1970's form of "Je ne sais quoi" - A quality that cannot be described or named easily,
"vividness" - "Producing powerful feelings or strong, clear images in the mind": memories of that evening were still vivid a vivid description
or,
"(Of a colour) intensely deep or bright": the rhododendron bush provides a vivid splash of mauve,
"aliveness", or even the
"crystalline" view.

Bins with this characteristic would be the Leica UVHD+, and the Swarovski SV.

3. "brilliance" ...... to my mind a redundant synthesis of "transmission" (brightness - provided sufficient EP conditions are met, and perhaps increasing intangibly as perceived with increasing objective diameter) and "vividness". A notion somewhat backed up by the Oxford dictionary definition:
"Intense brightness of light": the nights were dark, lit only by the brilliance of Aegean stars.
"Vividness of colour": lapis lazuli was highly regarded for the brilliance of its colour.

4. "transmission" ...... measured % over the defined spectral wavelengths of visible light (380nm to 750nm)

5. "luminescence" ...... a farcical and nonsensical term with reference to analogue or classical optics Imho, and far better reserved for describing the faint aura trails left by elusive Unicorns! 3:)
From the Oxford dictionary: "The emission of light by a substance that has not been heated, as in fluorescence and phosphorescence".

....................................................................................

So to make sense of all of this subjective jargon with reference to your question, I would say:

"Clarity" -> Zeiss HT 8x42 only
"Crystalline" view -> Swarovski 10x50 SV (also with added WOW! incidently :), and to a lesser extent 8.5x42 SV only. This is a more intense experience and to a greater extent of:
"Vividness" -> Leica 7 & 8X42 UVHD+, and 10x50 UVHD+


Chosun :gh:
 
A lot of work there, Chosun.
Don't you ever sleep down under?

It seems that a lot of the terms mentioned in this thread are due to emotions rather than scientific terms.

Binoworld.

I think I prefer watching Westworld, Riverworld or Waterworld.
Less stressful.
 
A lot of work there, Chosun.
Don't you ever sleep down under?

It seems that a lot of the terms mentioned in this thread are due to emotions rather than scientific terms.

Binoworld.

I think I prefer watching Westworld, Riverworld or Waterworld.
Less stressful.

Westworld, sounds like west of the EU.
River- and Waterworld sounds like England lately.

Wake up, you're not watching, you're in it;)
 
[QUOTE

2. "sparkle" ..... this is a misnomer in my view, since the Oxford dictionary defines this as: "Shine brightly with flashes of light:
her earrings sparkled as she turned her head"
....... I highly doubt that 'flashes of light' is at all desirable. Its better I think to term the intention of this descriptor as:
"sparkle-arkle" a term familiar to Australians, and is something like a relaxed and perhaps cheeky 1970's form of "Je ne sais quoi" - A quality that cannot be described or named easily,
"vividness" - "Producing powerful feelings or strong, clear images in the mind": memories of that evening were still vivid a vivid description
or,
"(Of a colour) intensely deep or bright": the rhododendron bush provides a vivid splash of mauve,
"aliveness", or even the
"crystalline" view.

Chosun :gh:[/QUOTE]
 

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I don't really take to these catch-phrases too well. I have no idea what sparkle is other than as defined above. I have never had a binocular sparkle or punch.

I still don't think an HT is going to dethrone an SV. Been there, done that.
 
A lot of work there, Chosun.
Don't you ever sleep down under?

It seems that a lot of the terms mentioned in this thread are due to emotions rather than scientific terms.

Binoworld.

I think I prefer watching Westworld, Riverworld or Waterworld.
Less stressful.
"A lot of work there, Chosun.
Don't you ever sleep down under?"

You can't sleep a "Big Salty" might get ya!
 

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