Which starter DSLR (1 Viewer)

Reader · Nov 8, 2006

I have been told that the Canon EOS 400D together with the Sigma 50-500 is possibly the best combination to invest in as a starter DSLR set up. It will be mainly used for Bird Photography.

I can't afford the more expensive set up's but the prices that the Canon and Sigma appear to be are within my price range.

I am hopefully cashing in an old pension scheme to pay of a large debt I have. Once that is done I will still have some left over, enough to cover the set up I have mentioned.

What do you folks think. Is this the best set up or do you think that there are others to consider.

Remember, I don't know the first thing about DSLR photography as all my photography is via my digiscopeing set up.

I look forward to your replies.

John

baillieswells · Nov 8, 2006

Reader said:
I have been told that the Canon EOS 400D together with the Sigma 50-500 is possibly the best combination to invest in as a starter DSLR set up. It will be mainly used for Bird Photography.

I can't afford the more expensive set up's but the prices that the Canon and Sigma appear to be are within my price range.

I am hopefully cashing in an old pension scheme to pay of a large debt I have. Once that is done I will still have some left over, enough to cover the set up I have mentioned.

What do you folks think. Is this the best set up or do you think that there are others to consider.

Remember, I don't know the first thing about DSLR photography as all my photography is via my digiscopeing set up.

I look forward to your replies.

John

In my opinion, though I expect Nikon owners might disagree, the Canon 400D is the best starter DSLR on the market. However, do not despise the superceeded Canon 350D which is getting cheaper by the day following the advent of the 400D. As for lenses I have the Sigma 170-500mm DG lens, with which I am very happy. I am sure others will recommend the Tamron 200mm-500mm or the Canon 100mm-400mm f5.6 lenses. I decided against the Sigma 50-500mm lens. I couldn't see myself lugging a lens of that weight around to photograph something at 50m, when I already have the very acceptable 50mm f1.8 lens.I am sure others will recommend it.

tizziec · Nov 8, 2006

Through it doesn't seem popular on teh site I absolutely adore my pentax K100D. I baught the body only and got the lens I wanted, butthen I have lenses from my old pentax that I can use. I didn't need the start up lense. Body was $568 and the lense i baught was $150. I get great pics and the camera is fairly light weight, has image stabelizer (verticle NAD horizontal) and it accepts just about ALL lenses for any pentax

postcardcv · Nov 8, 2006

I think that you'll struggle to go wrong with any of the current batch of entry level dslr's, they're all capable of delivering excellent images. Personally I'd go for one of the big two makes (Canon or Nikon) as off brand accessories and secondhand lenses tend to be much easier to get for these two. I use a Canon 350D and am very happy with it so would not hesitate to recommend it, though clearly the Nikons are also excellent. Best thing is to get to a camera shop and have a play with a few cameras and see which suits you.

Another consideration can be who you go out birding with. If you know others using a certain brand it might be worth going for that one so you can borrow each others kit. This is one of the factors that swung me to Canon.

Reader · Nov 8, 2006

baillieswells said:
In my opinion, though I expect Nikon owners might disagree, the Canon 400D is the best starter DSLR on the market. However, do not despise the superceeded Canon 350D which is getting cheaper by the day following the advent of the 400D. As for lenses I have the Sigma 170-500mm DG lens, with which I am very happy. I am sure others will recommend the Tamron 200mm-500mm or the Canon 100mm-400mm f5.6 lenses. I decided against the Sigma 50-500mm lens. I couldn't see myself lugging a lens of that weight around to photograph something at 50m, when I already have the very acceptable 50mm f1.8 lens.I am sure others will recommend it.

It's good to see that you recommend the 400D also. Regarding the 50-500. I can understand why you didn't go down that route as you already had lenses capable of doing you the job you wanted them to whereas I will be starting with nothing. Based on that would you think that the 50-500 is a good buy or would you recommend something else.

I have looked at the 350D and the prices seem similar to the 400D (unless I am looking at them incorrectly). On that basis wouldn't it be better to go with the later camera or does the 350D have benefits that the 400D doesn't.

John

Reader · Nov 8, 2006

postcardcv said:
I think that you'll struggle to go wrong with any of the current batch of entry level dslr's, they're all capable of delivering excellent images. Personally I'd go for one of the big two makes (Canon or Nikon) as off brand accessories and secondhand lenses tend to be much easier to get for these two. I use a Canon 350D and am very happy with it so would not hesitate to recommend it, though clearly the Nikons are also excellent. Best thing is to get to a camera shop and have a play with a few cameras and see which suits you.

I forgot to check but do you sell cameras at Cley Spy?

That's two of you that have mentioned the 350D. The 350D and the 400D seem to be similar in price. I wonder which is considered the best, and more to the point (for me) which is the easier to use (and to learn to use).

postcardcv said:
Another consideration can be who you go out birding with. If you know others using a certain brand it might be worth going for that one so you can borrow each others kit. This is one of the factors that swung me to Canon.

That's a problem as I don't have any birding companions so it would be a question of learning it all myself so it is necessary to find a camera and lens that isn't complicated to use.

John

Adey Baker · Nov 8, 2006

Reader said:
...Remember, I don't know the first thing about DSLR photography as all my photography is via my digiscopeing set up...

...I don't have any birding companions so it would be a question of learning it all myself so it is necessary to find a camera and lens that isn't complicated to use...

John

DSLR photography requires a different approach to digiscoping so without any regular photographer companions I reckon you ought to go along to somewhere nearby when a 'good' bird is reported as there'll be some local snappers there whose brains you can pick!

I'm thinking of something like a Diver at Draycote or a nice wader at Brandon - not a major twitch where everyone is pre-occupied with the rarity - and if you've got a Birdforum badge to wear there's a fair chance that one or more of the photographers there will be a BF member as well and recognise your name. If they're not actively photographing the bird in question I'm sure they'd let you have a quick look through the viewfinder to see the sort of magnification you'll get with any particular focal length lens

Reader · Nov 9, 2006

Adey Baker said:
DSLR photography requires a different approach to digiscoping so without any regular photographer companions I reckon you ought to go along to somewhere nearby when a 'good' bird is reported as there'll be some local snappers there whose brains you can pick!

I'm thinking of something like a Diver at Draycote or a nice wader at Brandon - not a major twitch where everyone is pre-occupied with the rarity - and if you've got a Birdforum badge to wear there's a fair chance that one or more of the photographers there will be a BF member as well and recognise your name. If they're not actively photographing the bird in question I'm sure they'd let you have a quick look through the viewfinder to see the sort of magnification you'll get with any particular focal length lens

Hi Adey

Everyone who sees me knows I am part of BF because I go everywhere with my old cream BF baseball cap. As yet there has never been a time at Draycote, Brandon or anywhere local (except once) where I have had anyone come up to me and say they are members.

I very rarely see anyone with a camera even when there have been some good wadaers around.

I would like to get some sort of set up fairly soon as I want to get used to using it before my next holiday, which starts on Dec 23rd for two weeks so waiting to meet someone at these sites might take longer than I have got.

BTW what set up do you use?

Does anyone else have any suggestions please?

John

iporali · Nov 9, 2006

Reader said:
Does anyone else have any suggestions please?

John,

I hope I am not confusing you too much, but one interesting option could be the Pentax K10D. It is supposed to be a "semi-pro" model targeted against the Canon 30D and Nikon D80 (or even D200). Its excellent advantage is a real prism viewfinder *), which is IMO much better than the narrow and dark mirror finders found in other "entry level" DSLRs. Try as many different models as you can and don't settle with anything you don't feel comfortable with. No matter what others say - our personal preferences just differ so much.

Having said that, the Canon D400 + 50-500 is indeed probably the safest solution for you to start

Best regards,

Ilkka

EDIT: *) and - of course - the built-in image stabilization (SR).

Adey Baker · Nov 9, 2006

Reader said:
I very rarely see anyone with a camera even when there have been some good waders around.

BTW what set up do you use?

John

There's usually quite a few shots of decent birds on Surfbirds, so I assume there must be quite a few photographers present at some time - all down to timing I suppose!

I use a Canon 20D coupled (almost permanently!) to a Sigma 400mm F5.6 lens which has excellent close-focussing capabilities, good enough for high quality butterfly and dragonfly shots - unfortunately, it's no longer made. You do need to get close to birds for the best results, hence my reference to a different approach, so it's not the ideal lens to take to a twitch where everyone is viewing the bird through scopes!

Reader · Nov 9, 2006

Adey Baker said:
There's usually quite a few shots of decent birds on Surfbirds, so I assume there must be quite a few photographers present at some time - all down to timing I suppose!

I use a Canon 20D coupled (almost permanently!) to a Sigma 400mm F5.6 lens which has excellent close-focussing capabilities, good enough for high quality butterfly and dragonfly shots - unfortunately, it's no longer made. You do need to get close to birds for the best results, hence my reference to a different approach, so it's not the ideal lens to take to a twitch where everyone is viewing the bird through scopes!

Hi Adey

The DSLR would be to fill the gap in range from me to the start of the digiscoping range. If the bird is distant my digiscoping set up would take over but for close up birds then my set up won't be good enough.

I have lost count of the times where a bird that is close by is too close to take a photo of with my camera and scope.

Over the weekend I could have got a fair shot of a Yellow-browed Warbler that was less than ten feet away from me. With the right DSLR set up I think I would have been in with a chance of getting a fair image of the bird.

John

christineredgate · Nov 9, 2006

John you cannot go wrong with either the 350D,20D(both these models are available as used these days).Buy a new 400D or a 30D and it will take cash from your lens.Lenses which seem to be popular,are the 400F5.6(can be used with a taped converter) good price,very light,and easy to use.(See my KF pics on the Gallery).Another very popular lens for birding ,not too heavy,again a reasonable price is the Tamron 200-500.There are some excellent images on the Gallery using this lens,but you do need reasonable light,also it can be used with a converter.Or how about the 100-400 lens,again,can be purchased used,can be used with a taped converter,and really does produce very sharp images,and you do have the advantage of IS.

Reader · Nov 10, 2006

Hi Christne

I think I am fairly certain that I will go for a new 400D. Regarding the lens. I have been trying to find some of those lens you have mentioned as second hand but can't find any. Do you know any web sites that you could point me to where they may be available.

John

postcardcv · Nov 10, 2006

Reader said:
I forgot to check but do you sell cameras at Cley Spy?

That's two of you that have mentioned the 350D. The 350D and the 400D seem to be similar in price. I wonder which is considered the best, and more to the point (for me) which is the easier to use (and to learn to use).

HI John

No Cley Spy don't sell cameras... which is probably a good thing or I' d spend all my wages before I left the shop! The 350D is the model before the 400D, which is why so many of us are using it. From what I've seen the image quality of the 400D is equal to the 350D. The 400D seems to have a few advanatages over the 350D - larger screen, 9-point AF, self-cleaning, bigger buffer - enough to make it a better buy, but not quite enough to convince me to upgrade...

rezMole · Nov 10, 2006

postcardcv said:
I think that you'll struggle to go wrong with any of the current batch of entry level dslr's, they're all capable of delivering excellent images. Personally I'd go for one of the big two makes (Canon or Nikon) as off brand accessories and secondhand lenses tend to be much easier to get for these two.

Whichever you choose, you'll have a great camera. There's not much in it between the big names. I went with Nikon as their cameras "felt" better for me. If I were going to start over again, i would consider giving Olympus a try - their system doubles the effecting length of lenses, rather than by a factor of 1.5 or 1.6. Saying this, i've never held one!

I realise lens choice is better with Canon or Nikon, but the independant manufacturers are starting to do other fittings now.

Reader · Nov 10, 2006

I went into Jessops today to try out the 400D. I was impressed but not half as much as when the unusually knowledgeable assistant asked me to try the 30D. That is much lighter and the feel of it seems much better to me. He went on to say that he thought the best package for me would be the 30D, the 100-100mm lens coupled with a 1.4 teleconverter. They have also promised to price match so I could be looking at a good deal here.

What do you folks think with that package?

John

level seven · Nov 10, 2006

I think you might want more of a zoom range than 100-100mm ;-)

tjsimonsen · Nov 10, 2006

Reader said:
I went into Jessops today to try out the 400D. I was impressed but not half as much as when the unusually knowledgeable assistant asked me to try the 30D. That is much lighter and the feel of it seems much better to me. He went on to say that he thought the best package for me would be the 30D, the 100-100mm lens coupled with a 1.4 teleconverter. They have also promised to price match so I could be looking at a good deal here.

What do you folks think with that package?

John

I suppose that you mean 100-400 B

Anyways, I have the 350D and the 100-400L IS (and a couple of other lenses as well), and I'm very satisfied with that combo. I serioursly don't know how much you will gain by going for the 30D instead of the 400D, the AF is the same and the 400D's buffer is pretty good, too. The 350D/400D is a small camera, though. And you might find it to small. I did, but I got the battery grip later, and it changed the entire feeling of the camera. Now it almost feels like a pro-body (to be honest, I never handled a 1D, so I really don't know what a true pro-body feels like). Even with the grip, the 350D was only a little more that half the price of the 30D (this was three months before the 400D was introduced).
My advice is: go for the 400D (include the battery grip if the camera feels to small), and use the money you save on good glass instead (i.e. a good standart/allround lens instead of the kit lens).

Enjoy your camera whatever you buy!
And remember: DSLR photography is a difficult game (especially if you haven't got experience with film SLR either), so don't let it get you down if your results aren't that great from day one.

/Thomas

Reader · Nov 10, 2006

tjsimonsen said:
I suppose that you mean 100-400 B
Anyways, I have the 350D and the 100-400L IS (and a couple of other lenses as well), and I'm very satisfied with that combo. I serioursly don't know how much you will gain by going for the 30D instead of the 400D, the AF is the same and the 400D's buffer is pretty good, too. The 350D/400D is a small camera, though. And you might find it to small. I did, but I got the battery grip later, and it changed the entire feeling of the camera. Now it almost feels like a pro-body (to be honest, I never handled a 1D, so I really don't know what a true pro-body feels like). Even with the grip, the 350D was only a little more that half the price of the 30D (this was three months before the 400D was introduced).
My advice is: go for the 400D (include the battery grip if the camera feels to small), and use the money you save on good glass instead (i.e. a good standart/allround lens instead of the kit lens).

Enjoy your camera whatever you buy!
And remember: DSLR photography is a difficult game (especially if you haven't got experience with film SLR either), so don't let it get you down if your results aren't that great from day one.

/Thomas

Thanks Thomas

Some excellent advice there. I am pretty well made my mind up on the 400d now. the lens is a different matter. I want as much focal length as i can and with that in mind I have been advised by a few people I know to go for the Sigma 50-500. They reckon it compliments the 400D and it makes a good package.

I'm stiil mulling it over though so any more advice will be most welcome.

John

Keith Reeder · Nov 10, 2006

The thing is, John, pretty much every lens mentioned so far will complement every camera mentioned so far...

Questions:

Will you generally be using a tripod, or is hand-holding more important?

Do you anticpate that you'll be doing most of your photography in open, well-lit situations, or do you expect to shoot a lot in (say) dark woodland?

Will you be mobile?

Will you only be shooting at long range, or do you anticipate that you'll also want to shoot at shorter distances?

What are the likely target species in the main?

Which starter DSLR (1 Viewer)

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