Dougie Preston
I live for this S**T
Does anyone know if the WH duck is still in North East England?, as I'm going to Norfolk on Saturday and would love to stop off on my way down.
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White-headed Duck at Salthome pools. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Dougie Preston
- Start date
IanF
Moderator
Hi Dougie,
Yes it's still around. In the main it can be found on Saltholme East pond - the one on the chemical works side of the road. It does move around between the various ponds but that is definitely it's favourite. I go down several evenings a week and have never failed to see it. There are usually a good few local birders down there on Saturdays so if you can't see it immediately someone should be able to help out. I'd have popped down but I have other plans for the day hopefully chasing Scotch Argus on the Pennines.
There are 3 - 5 Little Egrets around too if you're interested, but they're very active and can be found anywhere from Greatham Creek area to Dormans Pond (just behind Saltholme East).
Black Tern, Little Gull and a Spotted Redshank are around on Dormans Pond as well, along with almost guaranteed close views of Water Rail from the hide on Dormans - but a member of the bird club would have to be around to let you in.
Yes it's still around. In the main it can be found on Saltholme East pond - the one on the chemical works side of the road. It does move around between the various ponds but that is definitely it's favourite. I go down several evenings a week and have never failed to see it. There are usually a good few local birders down there on Saturdays so if you can't see it immediately someone should be able to help out. I'd have popped down but I have other plans for the day hopefully chasing Scotch Argus on the Pennines.
There are 3 - 5 Little Egrets around too if you're interested, but they're very active and can be found anywhere from Greatham Creek area to Dormans Pond (just behind Saltholme East).
Black Tern, Little Gull and a Spotted Redshank are around on Dormans Pond as well, along with almost guaranteed close views of Water Rail from the hide on Dormans - but a member of the bird club would have to be around to let you in.
Edward woodwood
Member
not sure i'm up to speed here but is there any particluar reason this individual hasn't made it onto the news services....or has it?
IanF
Moderator
It's old news Tim. It's been around for several months now and so only occasionally gets reported on the likes of Bird Guides. It's a stonking male with good colour. There are a few photos of it in the Gallery.
I should have said that it seems to favour the area to the left of the road just as you reach the pond travelling from the Fire Station (north) end. There is a drop kerb 80 yards after the pond starts that you can just to say pull onto. It swims up and down 10 - 50 yards out feeding quite regularly early mornings and in the evenings before it gets disturbed.
I should have said that it seems to favour the area to the left of the road just as you reach the pond travelling from the Fire Station (north) end. There is a drop kerb 80 yards after the pond starts that you can just to say pull onto. It swims up and down 10 - 50 yards out feeding quite regularly early mornings and in the evenings before it gets disturbed.
mountain man
Guest
Hi Ian,
What do the Teesside birders think about this bird? I saw it and I'm yet to tick it for the year and with Stevie Evans clinging to my backside all year I need every tick I can get!
Tom.
What do the Teesside birders think about this bird? I saw it and I'm yet to tick it for the year and with Stevie Evans clinging to my backside all year I need every tick I can get!
Tom.
Jasonbirder
Jason-occasional-twitcher
Isn`t this the same bird that was darn `sarf earlier this year/last year
IanF
Moderator
Hi Tom and Jason,
As Marmot says it certainly behaves as if it was a wild bird and most of the birders I meet down there are happy to tick it, though I suppose it's a personal thing. I have ticked it. I think it was either Birdwatch or Birdwatching that made out the case for it being wild. It not ringed, is very wary of people and moves about the area freely.
It is reckoned to be the same bird as was 'darn sath' but I guess no one knows for sure.
As Marmot says it certainly behaves as if it was a wild bird and most of the birders I meet down there are happy to tick it, though I suppose it's a personal thing. I have ticked it. I think it was either Birdwatch or Birdwatching that made out the case for it being wild. It not ringed, is very wary of people and moves about the area freely.
It is reckoned to be the same bird as was 'darn sath' but I guess no one knows for sure.
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StevieEvans
Well-known member
Hello.
The drake WHDuck first appeared on North Tees Marshes (Rec Pond) on 30th March this year.
The last recored sighting of the Drake from Broadwater GP, at London was 2 days earlier.....
Almost certainly the same one.
The 29th/30th saw a steady breeze from the South East, the bird appeared in a notable arrival of Ruddy's, along with a pr of BNGrebes to the same pool.
Whilst i agree with its 'wild' credentials whilst being in the North East, i have not counted it as a genuine wild vagrant as i'm sure it is the Broadwater bird.
This London bird spent a long while at its previous location, & as i dont know how long it was there OR where IT came from originaly then its only a 'could be' for me.
If anyone has the Full Story about this bird & it can be prooved without doubt to be a wild vagrant then i'll gladly 'tick it' so i can keep up with Tommy Mac.
An interesting bird to watch regardless of its provenance, especially when it bullies the Drake Ruddies.
Regards Stevie.
PS. (Apparently the Only Way White headed Duck will be Oficially added to the British List is if one is caught with a Spannish ring on its leg......)
The drake WHDuck first appeared on North Tees Marshes (Rec Pond) on 30th March this year.
The last recored sighting of the Drake from Broadwater GP, at London was 2 days earlier.....
Almost certainly the same one.
The 29th/30th saw a steady breeze from the South East, the bird appeared in a notable arrival of Ruddy's, along with a pr of BNGrebes to the same pool.
Whilst i agree with its 'wild' credentials whilst being in the North East, i have not counted it as a genuine wild vagrant as i'm sure it is the Broadwater bird.
This London bird spent a long while at its previous location, & as i dont know how long it was there OR where IT came from originaly then its only a 'could be' for me.
If anyone has the Full Story about this bird & it can be prooved without doubt to be a wild vagrant then i'll gladly 'tick it' so i can keep up with Tommy Mac.
An interesting bird to watch regardless of its provenance, especially when it bullies the Drake Ruddies.
Regards Stevie.
PS. (Apparently the Only Way White headed Duck will be Oficially added to the British List is if one is caught with a Spannish ring on its leg......)
Michael Frankis
conehead
Whatever the result whether tame or wild . . . Stevie and Tom have both seen it, so whether it is ticked or not doesn't affect the yearlist competition results
Michael
Michael
StevieEvans
Well-known member
Yes Michael Good Point, but...
I saw it before 'im.
& its a County Bird for me.
Plus, ive got some "spares" under my hat......like bridled guillemot, shoddy relduck & me nana's budgie. :eek!:
SE.
I saw it before 'im.
& its a County Bird for me.
Plus, ive got some "spares" under my hat......like bridled guillemot, shoddy relduck & me nana's budgie. :eek!:
SE.
IanF
Moderator
See what I mean?
Each to their own.
I visit the ponds quite often as they are on my doorstep and quite frankly the local birders are quite happy to accept it as a wild bird.
If it was appoaching people looking for a free feed then I'd doubt it's wild origins. But it is very wary of people, soon disappearing to the other side of the pond if it spots you, so I'm pretty happy with it being a wild bird.
Despite what Stevie says, it's just too presumptious to me to assume it's the same Broadwater bird. Maybe it is maybe it isn't, but that's no grounds to assume it isn't a vagrant. Both birds could be - certainly as far as the north-east is concerned!
BTW it was still on Saltholme East Pond this evening :t:
Each to their own.
I visit the ponds quite often as they are on my doorstep and quite frankly the local birders are quite happy to accept it as a wild bird.
If it was appoaching people looking for a free feed then I'd doubt it's wild origins. But it is very wary of people, soon disappearing to the other side of the pond if it spots you, so I'm pretty happy with it being a wild bird.
Despite what Stevie says, it's just too presumptious to me to assume it's the same Broadwater bird. Maybe it is maybe it isn't, but that's no grounds to assume it isn't a vagrant. Both birds could be - certainly as far as the north-east is concerned!
BTW it was still on Saltholme East Pond this evening :t:
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StevieEvans
Well-known member
Ian
We know you quite often visit the North Tees marshes........but, that doesn't make you an authority on authenticating British White Headed Duck records!
I dont think its presumptious at all to imagine that the Tees bird & the Broadwater bird are one & the same.
Drake disappears after a prolonged stay at one London site..........then..........2 days later one appears on the Rec.
Anyone with an open mind would presume what had most probably happened.
In fact i thought it was common knowledge in the birding community that they are one & the same, indeed my latest Bird Club bulletin (v.late as usual) clearly states this fact.
Strangely...There are not that many records of Drake White Headed Ducks in the UK this year or last year or the year before........
Stevie.
We know you quite often visit the North Tees marshes........but, that doesn't make you an authority on authenticating British White Headed Duck records!
I dont think its presumptious at all to imagine that the Tees bird & the Broadwater bird are one & the same.
Drake disappears after a prolonged stay at one London site..........then..........2 days later one appears on the Rec.
Anyone with an open mind would presume what had most probably happened.
In fact i thought it was common knowledge in the birding community that they are one & the same, indeed my latest Bird Club bulletin (v.late as usual) clearly states this fact.
Strangely...There are not that many records of Drake White Headed Ducks in the UK this year or last year or the year before........
Stevie.
StevieEvans
Well-known member
Dougie
Hope you get to see this attractive bird.
Feel free to PM me if you need any reliable & up to date info as regards that area. Keep an eye open for Little Egrets as there are now 5 in the area!
I'll be down before first light as i've just had a message about a Spotted Crake.
SE.
Hope you get to see this attractive bird.
Feel free to PM me if you need any reliable & up to date info as regards that area. Keep an eye open for Little Egrets as there are now 5 in the area!
I'll be down before first light as i've just had a message about a Spotted Crake.
SE.
IanF
Moderator
Ouch! I guess I struck a nerve there Stevie.StevieEvans said:Ian
We know you quite often visit the North Tees marshes........but, that doesn't make you an authority on authenticating British White Headed Duck records!
I dont think its presumptious at all to imagine that the Tees bird & the Broadwater bird are one & the same.
Drake disappears after a prolonged stay at one London site..........then..........2 days later one appears on the Rec.
Anyone with an open mind would presume what had most probably happened.
In fact i thought it was common knowledge in the birding community that they are one & the same, indeed my latest Bird Club bulletin (v.late as usual) clearly states this fact.
Strangely...There are not that many records of Drake White Headed Ducks in the UK this year or last year or the year before........
Stevie.
I wouldn't presume to claim to be an expert on WH Duck records in the UK or much else for that matter.
I do recall that around three or so were reported last year in the UK - obviously not the same bird and more than one were have been reported this year. I'd still say it's very difficult to be 100% certain that it is the same bird from Broadwater, though it's obviously a distinct possibility. Perhaps it would be better to keep at least a partially open mind on the matter?
mountain man
Guest
Chris,
I agree that the "wary" thing is garbage in assessing a birds wild status.
However, there are far more factors that point to this bird being wild...or not as you shall see...
In September of last year a small, but undeniable, influx of White-headed Duck occurred in SE England and the Midlands. (I saw the one at Belvide and that is permanent markered in on my list - regardless of any "official" decision.) This has happened before with Ruddy Shelduck in 1994, but these were considered by the BOU to have been from a feral population in Holland/Belgium (perhaps incorrectly?).
As there are no known feral populations of White-headed Duck anywhere in the world, unless there was a general consensus among wildowl keepers to have a combined "pen opening day", I see no valid argument for the White-headed Ducks in that influx being anything other than wild.
Now the Cleveland bird has to be ticked with a bit of blind faith. For a start is it the Broadwater bird: how can you really be certain?
However the real killer is that the Broadwater bird was present in that area since at least the end of 2002.
So maybe people should stop trying to link the Broadwater bird to this one if they want to add a bit more credibility to it!!!
Tom.
I agree that the "wary" thing is garbage in assessing a birds wild status.
However, there are far more factors that point to this bird being wild...or not as you shall see...
In September of last year a small, but undeniable, influx of White-headed Duck occurred in SE England and the Midlands. (I saw the one at Belvide and that is permanent markered in on my list - regardless of any "official" decision.) This has happened before with Ruddy Shelduck in 1994, but these were considered by the BOU to have been from a feral population in Holland/Belgium (perhaps incorrectly?).
As there are no known feral populations of White-headed Duck anywhere in the world, unless there was a general consensus among wildowl keepers to have a combined "pen opening day", I see no valid argument for the White-headed Ducks in that influx being anything other than wild.
Now the Cleveland bird has to be ticked with a bit of blind faith. For a start is it the Broadwater bird: how can you really be certain?
However the real killer is that the Broadwater bird was present in that area since at least the end of 2002.
So maybe people should stop trying to link the Broadwater bird to this one if they want to add a bit more credibility to it!!!
Tom.
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StevieEvans
Well-known member
Ian, I can assure you that no nerves have been struck.
I'd just like the Full & accurate Picture.
What were the ages & sexes of last years 3 ?
How many individuals, of what age & sex, have been reported this year ?
"Partially open mind on the matter..." - mmm, you're the one who's ticked it on its behaviour !!
Theres a subtle difference between a 'tick' & a new addition to the British List!
We've ALL 'ticked' it! that doesnt make it a wild bird.
What will make it a wild bird is if all the appropriate facts are gathered together.
There's no one who'd like to see it accepted more than a keen lister like me (this year anyway) (I set off at 1AM to see the Mongolian Plover, had no sleep saw the bird, then came straight back for a full days physical work. ie i am KEEN to get new birds!)
If i hadnt heard of the Broadwater bird then i'd imagine the Tees one to be a 99% genuine wild one.
Tom.
Your last sentence sounds a bit like " stop discussing the London bird & the Tees one will get wilder...? "
I can imagine that you would know how much i'd like to include it on my list!
#Maybe, if this matter doesn't get sorted, which i doubt it will 100%, then we should set up a Bird Forum British Birds List
Any dubious birds & especially ducks could be put up for a vote by BF Members, the outcome will determine its 'tickability'.
Then there'd be less squabbles & Listers could compare "like with like"
PS the last idea was intended to be serious.
Regards Stevie
I'd just like the Full & accurate Picture.
What were the ages & sexes of last years 3 ?
How many individuals, of what age & sex, have been reported this year ?
"Partially open mind on the matter..." - mmm, you're the one who's ticked it on its behaviour !!
Theres a subtle difference between a 'tick' & a new addition to the British List!
We've ALL 'ticked' it! that doesnt make it a wild bird.
What will make it a wild bird is if all the appropriate facts are gathered together.
There's no one who'd like to see it accepted more than a keen lister like me (this year anyway) (I set off at 1AM to see the Mongolian Plover, had no sleep saw the bird, then came straight back for a full days physical work. ie i am KEEN to get new birds!)
If i hadnt heard of the Broadwater bird then i'd imagine the Tees one to be a 99% genuine wild one.
Tom.
Your last sentence sounds a bit like " stop discussing the London bird & the Tees one will get wilder...? "
I can imagine that you would know how much i'd like to include it on my list!
#Maybe, if this matter doesn't get sorted, which i doubt it will 100%, then we should set up a Bird Forum British Birds List
Any dubious birds & especially ducks could be put up for a vote by BF Members, the outcome will determine its 'tickability'.
Then there'd be less squabbles & Listers could compare "like with like"
PS the last idea was intended to be serious.
Regards Stevie
mountain man
Guest
Howdy Stevie,
I just think that there is no reason to link the Broadwater bird to this one. It's purely circumstantial so why do it?
The Lesser Sand Plover you saw is a classic example of assumption causing a cock up. There had been a Greater in Norfolk so this bird has to be a Greater - surely a Lesser couldn't turn up as well???
The reason people have linked the two, I think, is that it may be likely that the BOU will put WHD on the Brit list on the strength of that mini invasion. Lots of people have incorrectly assumed that the Broadwater bird was part of that mini invasion - I believe the Broadwater bird to be an escape (I'm prepared to be hung for saying that) as there is no wild credibility to it whatsoever.
Therefore, knowing these incorrect facts about the Broadwater bird, it seems better to link the Broadwater & Saltholme birds - which many people are doing.
What I say is take all the concrete facts (ignore the circumstantial crap) and assess the Saltholme bird on the grounds of those.
Tom.
I just think that there is no reason to link the Broadwater bird to this one. It's purely circumstantial so why do it?
The Lesser Sand Plover you saw is a classic example of assumption causing a cock up. There had been a Greater in Norfolk so this bird has to be a Greater - surely a Lesser couldn't turn up as well???
The reason people have linked the two, I think, is that it may be likely that the BOU will put WHD on the Brit list on the strength of that mini invasion. Lots of people have incorrectly assumed that the Broadwater bird was part of that mini invasion - I believe the Broadwater bird to be an escape (I'm prepared to be hung for saying that) as there is no wild credibility to it whatsoever.
Therefore, knowing these incorrect facts about the Broadwater bird, it seems better to link the Broadwater & Saltholme birds - which many people are doing.
What I say is take all the concrete facts (ignore the circumstantial crap) and assess the Saltholme bird on the grounds of those.
Tom.
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