Revision of common bird names (1 Viewer)

In one of the major Swedish newspaper I recently read a letter to the editor.
Where a person (f/m? you guess) called for a revision of common bird names (in this case swedish). The argumentation was that common names was badly systemised and based on irrational assumptions about the bird, based on looks, superstition etc

One example brought up was the Pied Oystercatcher. Swedish name in a straight translation is Coastal Magpie which the author thought was inacceptable, being misleading since its a wader and not a magpie. In english i guess you could argue if it really catches any oysters or should it be named by major food preference (Bivalve Molluscs Catcher? )

Anyhow my spontaneous thought was how dreadfully boring if everything was perfectly systemized. There is a latin name and a taxonomy. Let the common names be irrational, folkloristic and by all means even romantic

Throwing out the bone..........

Agree with you ebba, Coastal Magpie, I like it. In this country if that happened most bird names would probably have to be scraped.

Hi Yvonne,

I definitely agree with you on this one. There is no need for common names to be systematic when we have scientific names. In addition I guess there is only one set of Swedish names so they will be pretty unamibiguous. These arguments crop-up repeatedly with English names, and every few years someone proposes another set of standard names, which are small variations on existing names. There is some reason for this as some widespread species can have different names depending on whether you look in the European, the Indian of the South-east Asian fieldguide for instance. However, in the end these attempts to standardise names lead to confusion rather than clarification, and everybody keeps using the name Dunnock for Prunella modularis no matter what the latest list calls them. I guess your Swedish correspondent (and it can only have been a male) would have a problem with Swedes calling the same species Järnsparv as ther are of course neither sparrows nor made of iron.

Cheers,

Stuart

I see there also making somewhat of an attempt at standardizing English names on both sides of the Atlantic. For example the British now list Lapland Longspur rather than Lapland Bunting. Likewise the Americans now use Long-Tailed Duck rather than Oldsquaw.

Gentoo said:

I see there also making somewhat of an attempt at standardizing English names on both sides of the Atlantic. For example the British now list Lapland Longspur rather than Lapland Bunting. Likewise the Americans now use Long-Tailed Duck rather than Oldsquaw.

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There is also the recent "Birds of the World: Recommended English Names" by Frank Gill and Minturn Wright on behalf of the International Ornithological Congress. Princeton, N. J.: Princeton University Press, 2006.

The committee developed rules and attempted to standardize many of the vexing questions - when to capitalise, when to hyphenate, how to spell Grey, etc.

http://www.amazon.com/Birds-World-R...ef=sr_1_1/002-7579446-9900036?ie=UTF8&s=books

SteveO43 said:

There is also the recent "Birds of the World: Recommended English Names" by Frank Gill and Minturn Wright on behalf of the International Ornithological Congress. Princeton, N. J.: Princeton University Press, 2006.

The committee developed rules and attempted to standardize many of the vexing questions - when to capitalise, when to hyphenate, how to spell Grey, etc.

http://www.amazon.com/Birds-World-R...ef=sr_1_1/002-7579446-9900036?ie=UTF8&s=books

Click to expand...

Definately something I will have to order...thank you!

StuartReeves said:

Hi Yvonne,

I definitely agree with you on this one.

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Instead of feeling pleased that sentence somehow makes me quite uneasy.....

Järnsparv, chuckle!

Swedish birdnames are not as ambiguous as english true! But there are local varieties.

Some dialects go straight for behaviour:
Kårntjuv - Grainthief - House Sparrow

or sound:
Kwintn - Chaffinch (obviously!?)
Sesseliskitn .... guess?

and one just for StuartReeves:
Härabävern.....

I think the "standardisation" of common names is an international thing. In Afrikaans they also have now an official "names committee". This committee now is in charge of keeping a standard list names in Afrikaans.

I think it is important to at least have a standard list of names for a language. Even in Afrikaans (with about 6 million mother tongue speakers) some more common birds have at least a few names. And then if you bought a bird book...each one differed. And most people don't learn of know the scientific name.

But still this committee also collects alternative names for the birds, thus preventing a part of our language history from disappearing.

A good example is the Common Bulbul (Pycnonotus barbatus). The standard Afrikaans name (and the one I use) is Swartoogtiptol (Black-eyed Bulbul). My father calls it Pietkluitjiekorrel (Peter dirt particle - its calls sounds like it is saying that), my grandmother calls it Bottergatjie (little butter ass - due to the yellow beneath its tail) and in other parts it is known as Ou Toppie (old man).

Thus, I agree these should be a "standard" list for bird names, but they should not be changed to be fitting (like changing the name of the oystercatcher) or the alternative names shoudl be forgotten.

We also have some "funny" names in Afrikaans: the Bateleur (an eagle) is called "Berghaan" (Mountain rooster), the Kori Bustard is called "Gompou" (glue peacock), the Cattle Egret "Bosluisvoel" (tick bird), the Sacred Ibis "Skoorsteenveer" (chimney sweep) and the Namaqua Sandgrouse "Kelkiewyn" (glass of wine).

Who's in support of changing Dark-sided Flycatcher to Vader Flycatcher?



(Can't take credit for that idea unfortunately...)

If there is any standardization of common names for birds, then I hope that the Bulgarian common name for Wren will be accepted...it is "Orehche" which means "Little Walnut"! A perfect description I always think!

Got to be careful with "little butter ass." A lot of N. American birders call our yellow- rumped warbler a "butter-butt." I think it will cause some confusion

I agree with the above statement that the majority of birders do not learn the scientific names. I think it would help birders and birding in general if we made it easy and eliminated confusion by standardizing common names. Many don't agree but to each their own I guess.

Portuguese nomenclature is very confusing. Logically, there's a basic name for most of the groups, but as Brazil is a very big country, there are many (and many) variations. Be sure almost no bird have only on name here.

Just look how confusing it is: The Chopi Blackbird is known as melro, pássaro-preto (which in a literally translation would be just Blackbird), graúna, vira-bosta (a "dirty" name, this means to turn the feces, being the last word in a more "coloquial" way), chopim and many others.
-Melro is also the name given to some Turdus Thrushes, especially those that occur in Portugal.
-Pássaro-preto, which is a very vague translation, can refer to many other common black birds (not only Blackbirds), e.g. Shiny Cowbird, and has varied to names such as "passo-preto", to make it easier to pronounce.
-Graúna can refer to Shiny or Giant Cowbird, besides may other species I'm not aware probably.
-Vira-bosta commonly refers to Shiny Cowbird, too. This name was also given to a type of beetle.
-Chopim or chupim (again) is more normally refered to Shiny Cowbird than Chopi Blackbird.

And don't think the example I gave is the only. This happens in countless situations and these links are endless. The problem is that there's no official names.

Another problem is that many names are onomatopoeic, the best example might be "bem-te-vi" (Great Kiskadee), other are totally based on the appearance (this is very common), for example the Black-throated Grosbeak, whose name in Brazil is "bico-de-pimenta" ("pepper bill"). If you have a basic knowlegde about common bird names in English, you can name which type of bird at the time you see it (not in all cases, of course). Maybe you can even guess the whole name just by seeing it (if I saw a Black-throated Grosbeak without knowing its name, I would probably guess Red-billed(beaked) Grosbeak though).

To summarize, I think the Brazilian nomenclature should change a bit, by adopting criteria to name birds.