Stuck trying to find a second scope (1 Viewer)

Hi everyone, quite new to the forum this being my second post. This will be quite alot of ramble from a non-english-speaker so I hope some of you can follow and understand my issue..


As the titles says I'm stuck trying to get the "perfect" second scope (I know there is no such thing as perfect..). I already have a 83mm Focus Eagle ED which is absolutely great for the money, I'm going to toss the 25-50 swarovski ep. on it to make it pop even more. However I would love to complement it with something lighter or smaller that my girlfriend can use and that doesn't brake the bank.


I have been looking through most options that can be found in Sweden, although just in good conditions so most scopes did quite well. However I didn't get very impressed with all the opticrons, celestrons and so on. The pentax scopes where nice with fixed ep's but didn't find a zoom with good enough fov. Are there any available really? Without needing a lot of modification that is. And here comes the next issue for me, if I get a 80+ scope I could get a zoom but with a smaller one I would get a fixed 30x. Therefore I have been looking at some non-ED variants aswell something along the lines of the Kowa 601 or even a Nikon Prostaff. But how does these stack up against the "lesser" brands ED-scopes? Would I maybe be better off getting a new 30x and a SDLv2 for my old TSN-1 instead? TSN-3s, 603s and 613s are impossible to get a hold of here in Sweden so that's not really an option. Is ED really necessary when using fixed ep's and digiscoping is out of the picture? I could also get a Kowa 663m with a fixed ep but I could get two 601s for that price. And then I'm also getting close to a swarovski ATS 65 with a 25-50. However I'm not too fond of a zoom on a sub-80mm scope, even if this zoom is a real cracker of an ep.

This all seem impossible to me (my girlfriend is not close to being this picky, it's all me.. ) But I really want to get as much as possible out of every penny I spend, all ideas are welcome, maybe I missed something obvious but I can't figure anything out at the moment!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Hi,

if you have the TSN-1 (probably with the infamous old zoom) getting a 30 wide is certainly a cheap and quite nice option. Not very compact though. The SDLv2 is also good on it if you want to spend the money - some colour is to be expected, especially at higher magnifications.

We tried both EPs in a fellow birders TSN-1, who still used the old zoom... I could have sold two EPs that day ;-)

Joachim

Hi Joachim!

I do have an old TSN-1 laying around but with the old 20x, it would certainly be alot cheaper at least to go with that one, and the zoom would only be used in the best if conditions, I don't really like zooms that much tbh, but when the weather allows it it's nice to have the option! The thing is that I can infact spend a few bucks on a lighter/more efficient scope but at the price range I'm looking at maby that's not really possible. I really want the 601 to be up to the task but I only checked it out with sun in the back without any heat haze, so of course it was a great view. But when conditions get worse maby I will feel sorry for not getting a ED model or at least a scope with a larger aperture. This is why I'm stuck you see!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

try a nikon ED50 ,....

50mm is not enough for me to use with a 30x ep. I don't want to end up with an exit pupil of less then 2 really, but I do know people love that lil' scope so maby I could give it a look

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Arwzz said:

I do have an old TSN-1 laying around but with the old 20x, it would certainly be alot cheaper at least to go with that one, and the zoom would only be used in the best if conditions, I don't really like zooms that much tbh, but when the weather allows it it's nice to have the option! The thing is that I can infact spend a few bucks on a lighter/more efficient scope but at the price range I'm looking at maby that's not really possible. I really want the 601 to be up to the task but I only checked it out with sun in the back without any heat haze, so of course it was a great view. But when conditions get worse maby I will feel sorry for not getting a ED model or at least a scope with a larger aperture. This is why I'm stuck you see!

Click to expand...

Hi,

actually a bigger aperture will likely make things worse in bad seeing conditions (heat haze). When looking at backlit objects you will see some CA with both a 601 or TSN-1.

In my opinion a 601 is a sidegrade at best when compared to the TSN-1. It might be a tad brighter in good light due to more current coatings, but when it counts at dusk, 17mm more aperture will win big time.

If you have some money to spend, what about an Opticron MM3 in 50mm with the SDLv2 or HDF Zoom. This is great views in a nice and small package and you could use the zoom on the TSN-1 for more reach.

Joachim

I have been looking through most of the opticrons and I didn't really understand what they are all about, the fov with the zooms was rubbish and they didn't seem to do so well in any mag in any of the scopes imo they could not compare at all with something like the 25-50 of the swaro or the leica, the fixed ep's where not available to try where I was so I don't know about those, do they come close to the Kowa 663m with the 30xW? The Opticron 40858 that is, on either a mm3 50 or 60

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Hi Arwzz,

Try to find a Meopta S1 75 APO. In spite of the 75 mm objective it is very light, short, strong, and user friendly scope. Its optics are outstanding! I have one since 2010 and couldn't be happier with it! I have the 20-60x plus the 30x WW Angle eyepieces. The latter is amazingly good! And perfect to an all around eyepiece.

Good luck!

The meopta sounds interesting, problem is to get hold of one.
Do any of you fellas know where it's possible to find used optics? I live in Sweden and here it's close to impossible to get hold of something other than old non-ed scopes, I do already have an old TSN-1 as mentioned before so another older regular scope is out if the picture, because I'd rather just keep the Kowa in that case ^^

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Arwzz said:

I have been looking through most of the opticrons and I didn't really understand what they are all about, the fov with the zooms was rubbish and they didn't seem to do so well in any mag in any of the scopes imo they could not compare at all with something like the 25-50 of the swaro or the leica, the fixed ep's where not available to try where I was so I don't know about those, do they come close to the Kowa 663m with the 30xW? The Opticron 40858 that is, on either a mm3 50 or 60

Click to expand...

Hi,

if you compare the Opticrons with the current top models from Kowa, Swaro or Leica with a wide angle zoom for three times the money - yes, they will loose big time - especially due to the field. And you won't be able to get a wide angle zoom into a Kowa 663 or the like due to the limited eyepiece diameter and thus the field stop.

But it has to be said that the SDLv2 is a nice zoom EP - it gives a wider field of view than the Kowa zoom on the 663 towards the high mag end and it has a field flattener unlike the Kowa, so it's sharp to the edge.

The discontinued Opticron 40858 with the MM3 60mm gives 32x and 38/1000m. Kowa 663 is 30x and 42/1000m which is comparable.

Btw: the fixed Opticron EPs don't fit the Kowa scopes!

If you want a good scope for 30x, get the Kowa 30 wide for your TSN-1. An MM3 with 30x EP is about a pound lighter than the Kowa... is that worth the additional money?

Joachim

Thanks alot for the answers Joachim! That extra money might then instead be put into a lighter tripod for ye 'ol Kowa and I'll have that as the secondary, it might be easier to cut some weight in that department anyways?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Hi,

yes, one can certainly shave off a pound or two with a nice carbon tripod. The usual stuff:

- less leg sections is better than more - with more leg sections you have more locking points which make things less stable and also the lowest sections are very thin and thus wobbly...

- ideally the tripod is tall enough to use with the column down or mostly so.

- maximum rated load should be at least double the weight of your scope and EP.

- a scopac or clone makes things a lot less cumbersome...

Joachim, who got the predecessor of the Velbon Geo N535 used for cheap - now with a Manfrotto 128RC