Wild boar in Britain (1 Viewer)

Amarillo · Dec 9, 2005

Following on from the high level of interest, and lengthy debate about the status of eagle owls in Britain, I would like to draw your attention to the public consultation currently being held by DEFRA for the future of the wild boar in Britain. Unlike the eagle owl, this is definately a native species and logically the conclusion should be reached that they should be given protection and accepted once again as part of Britains fauna. However, there will undoubtedly be some oppostion to wild boar, given the possible agricultural damage they will cause. Even the reintroduction of the beaver in Scotland, despite all evidence pointing towards them having no adverse effects, was abandoned after opponents voiced their opinion in the public consultation.

The wild boar belongs here, and lets make sure the voices of wildlife lovers are heard, and the wild boar is allowed to stay. The documents can be found here:

http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/consult/wild-boar/index.htm

Otto McDiesel · Dec 9, 2005

It would be good news indeed for boar and hunters alike.

Amarillo · Dec 9, 2005

Otto McDiesel said:
It would be good news indeed for boar and hunters alike.

Absolutely. Given their lack of predators and high breeding rates, they would need to be controlled somehow.

The system they use in other European countries is that the hunters pay the landowners to shoot boars on their land. This then acts as compensation for the crop damage the boar cause.

Everyones happy.

James · Dec 9, 2005

Amarillo said:
Absolutely. Given their lack of predators and high breeding rates, they would need to be controlled somehow.

The system they use in other European countries is that the hunters pay the landowners to shoot boars on their land. This then acts as compensation for the crop damage the boar cause.

Everyones happy.

Everyone except the hunted boar!!!!!!!!

James

Otto McDiesel · Dec 9, 2005

James said:
Everyone except the hunted boar!!!!!!!!

James

James, i assure you that boar are not at a loss. Fewer boar means more food for them. Also, they are extremely smart, even when people hunt them with guns, boar have a very fair chance.
If i were a to be a pig, i'd rather be a boar in a hunted forest than a hog on a farm.

turkish van · Dec 9, 2005

Otto McDiesel said:
James, i assure you that boar are not at a loss. Fewer boar means more food for them. Also, they are extremely smart, even when people hunt them with guns, boar have a very fair chance.
If i were a to be a pig, i'd rather be a boar in a hunted forest than a hog on a farm.

I'm all for letting the boar stay in the UK. But sorry, what's the point in encouraging them, then shooting them all down? I can see why the hunter is happy.

Otto - that's a bit like the non-existent argument for fox hunting. 'We're controlling the numbers' or 'without us, they'd get out of hand'. You've hit it on the nail when you say fewer boar means more food for them. If there were more boar, come winter food is in short supply and they struggle. In the fox population about 50% die over the winter, because there isn't enough food to go round (in non hunting areas). All the hunters are doing in the season before is killing the ones that would die over the winter anyway. ie taking the place of nature. Infact, the hunters are doing the foxes a service, because come winter there are fewer foxes, more food to go round, so when winter ends, the foxes are healthier and hence have a better breeding season.

Which, of course, means the hunters have to kill even more....

I don't know, but I'd imagine the situation would be similar for boar.

Strandman · Dec 9, 2005

I'm a great, great fan of wild boar and in favour of allowing them to re-establish here. But don't rely too much on the control-through-hunting scenario here- there is nothing like the same large game shooting tradition in England as there is in France, Germany and Spain (one of the reasons wild deer populations are so high here). So there may be some wild boar shooting here, but I would be surprised if it developed to the point where it exercised a serious level of control on the wild boar population.

(Edit- I'm referring here to the position in southern England, where boars seem to be settling in- not Scotland, which may be different and about which I would not presume to pontificate.)

Amarillo · Dec 9, 2005

turkish van said:
I'm all for letting the boar stay in the UK. But sorry, what's the point in encouraging them, then shooting them all down? I can see why the hunter is happy......

....I don't know, but I'd imagine the situation would be similar for boar.

Actually, the situation is very different for boar. In a natural landscape their numbers would be controlled by food supply, and by predators.

Britain today has no large predators and due to agriculture, there an oversupply of food. The natural population limiters are simply not there. In Germany and France, millions are shot each year and the population is still booming.

It is not a case of "shooting them all down" - it is a case of controlling their numbers, and at the same time providing sport for the hunters, and compensation for the farmers.

James Blake · Dec 9, 2005

There's at least one British mammalogist who thinks most or all of the animals now living here are feral pigs rather than true Wild Boar - though I suspect the difference is pretty minimal. Wonder if this will affect DEFRA's deliberations?

James

turkish van · Dec 9, 2005

Amarillo said:
Actually, the situation is very different for boar. In a natural landscape their numbers would be controlled by food supply, and by predators.

Britain today has no large predators and due to agriculture, there an oversupply of food. The natural population limiters are simply not there. In Germany and France, millions are shot each year and the population is still booming.

It is not a case of "shooting them all down" - it is a case of controlling their numbers, and at the same time providing sport for the hunters, and compensation for the farmers.

Would there be a continuous supply of food through the winter, for what will become a large population? In germany and france, if millions are shot each year and the population is still booming, doesn't that tell you something about the effectiveness of hunting? But I'd agree with white-back, I can't see there being such a response in Britain. Imagine how busy our trusty anti-hunting campaigners would become...

Keithec · Dec 9, 2005

I like the idea of wild boar being part of the British fauna again but increasing populations will have an effect on habitats, many of which are fragile anyway. Boar rooting around will have an effect. For example, it is said that one of the reasons that Britain still has many bluebell woods is the absence of boar. I'm not stating this as an argument against encouraging them however, but merely to illustrate that conservation is complex.

Keith

Eider-Duck · Dec 10, 2005

Amarillo said:
Absolutely. Given their lack of predators and high breeding rates, they would need to be controlled somehow.

The system they use in other European countries is that the hunters pay the landowners to shoot boars on their land. This then acts as compensation for the crop damage the boar cause.

Everyones happy.

Happy!!! about the idea of introducing wild boar into this country simply to hunt them? certainly not! however, I suppose I am happy in the sense that this posting has helped me to decide exactly where I stand on this subject.
TOTALLY AGAINST THE INTRODUCTION OF WILD BOAR INTO THIS COUNTRY!!! :storm:

DavidP · Dec 10, 2005

Eider-Duck said:
Happy!!! about the idea of introducing wild boar into this country simply to hunt them? certainly not! however, I suppose I am happy in the sense that this posting has helped me to decide exactly where I stand on this subject.
TOTALLY AGAINST THE INTRODUCTION OF WILD BOAR INTO THIS COUNTRY!!! :storm:

Its interesting the cultural differences between UK and US birders in this aspect. In a recent US birding mag there was a long article about hunting and birding by Pete Dunne (sort of a US Bill Oddie) who I gather is both. My local preserve here is actually for hunting but provides great habitat and is open to birders as well just be careful on Wednesdays and Saturdays during hunting season (only 4 months a yr). Amazingly there don't seem to be too many conflicts. Duscks unlimited the major US duck hunting association has been very active in protecting habitat and its doubtful we'd be talking about the possible re discovery of the Ivory billed woodpecker in Arkansas if not for the protection that the swamps received from the hunters. Otherwise they'd all been drained and soybean fields by now I suspect.
So the two can work together if personal morality doesn't get in the way.

Isurus · Dec 10, 2005

Eider-Duck said:
Happy!!! about the idea of introducing wild boar into this country simply to hunt them? certainly not! however, I suppose I am happy in the sense that this posting has helped me to decide exactly where I stand on this subject.
TOTALLY AGAINST THE INTRODUCTION OF WILD BOAR INTO THIS COUNTRY!!! :storm:

So I assume you'll be favouring option b) - total erradication of the current population then?

http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/consult/wild-boar/wildboar-implications.pdf

David FG · Dec 10, 2005

Eider-Duck said:
Happy!!! about the idea of introducing wild boar into this country simply to hunt them? certainly not! however, I suppose I am happy in the sense that this posting has helped me to decide exactly where I stand on this subject.
TOTALLY AGAINST THE INTRODUCTION OF WILD BOAR INTO THIS COUNTRY!!! :storm:

You are a bit late; they are already here in some numbers.

Keith Reeder · Dec 10, 2005

Like it or not, hunting is a (the?) prime reason why we have viable populations of red and fallow deer, pheasants, grouse, partridge, foxes...

It's naive and deluded to think that without "vested interests" (read hunters) conserving these animals that we'd still have them in the wild, or indeed that there'd still be much in the way of the requisite habitat to support them.

Eider-Duck · Dec 10, 2005

Isurus said:
So I assume you'll be favouring option b) - total erradication of the current population then?

http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/consult/wild-boar/wildboar-implications.pdf

The wild boars in this country are only living in the wild beacause they have escaped from farms, they are an invasive species, detrimental to woodland. I belive they should be erradicated as soon as possible while their numbers are still small and relatively localised.

Eider-Duck · Dec 10, 2005

David FG said:
You are a bit late; they are already here in some numbers.

Yes, they are here, living in the wild thanks to the irresponsibility of some farmers allowing the wild boars to escape in contravention of the Wildlife and Countryside Act.

Keith Reeder · Dec 10, 2005

So you have no problem with them being shot to get rid of 'em, but you rail at the idea of allowing some to be shot by hunters in order to permit them - a species which existed in the UK historically and which is only missing now, because of man - to maintain a presence?

I can't get anywhere near understanding the logic of that...

Eider-Duck · Dec 10, 2005

According to what I have read if the boars were erradicated now while the population is still small and localised the number to be culled would be relativly low approx 1000 individuals (this is compared with the weekly slaughter of approximately 20,000 domestic pigs for human consumption) and also the probable cull of several thousand individuals annually if a widespread wild boar population became established.

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