• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

What Would You Do: Someone badly misidentifying birds on a list (1 Viewer)

Hi Andy,

andyadcock said:
So if no such connection were made, you wouldn't correct their error?
Click to expand...

What I tend to do in such a situation is to ask for their advice, describing the some characteristic field mark I just observed that matches my identification, but not theirs. (Or show a photograph, if one exists.)

This usually results in a friendly discussion of identification difficulties. Some people adjust their ID, some probably don't, but by discussing the process and not the result, it still might improve long term ID skills. Mine included, this is not a one-way-street! :)

Regards,

Henning
 
etudiant said:
Quite so. It is not incumbent on you to tell strangers what to believe unless you are asked.
Telling someone that they are wrong is a pretty direct assault. It puts everything into a bad light. I'd much rather save it for an occasion where there is an opportunity to introduce the truth without showing up the other party.
Click to expand...


I wouldn't be telloing them what to believe, I'd be telling them a fact and hopefully, teaching them something.

I suggest also that you check the meaning of 'assault', it's not a word that I associate with a situation like this and I don't think many others would either.

Sounds to me etudiant that you may be one of those who doesn't take being corrected, gracefully or well, apologies if wrong?

Re your other post, here's a scenario from a few years ago. I was leaving the beach in Bali and walked past three people, as I did so. One asked of the others 'what's that bright thing in the sky over there'......I told them as I passed that it was Venus, was this also rude In your opinion?


A
 
Last edited:
Nice little interface between 'beliefs', 'feelings' on one side and facts and reality on the other.

Most birds / images of birds are demonstrably identifiable and the identity of bird in the image becomes (is) a reality.

If an observer's feelings are hurt, when (if) a mis-identification is corrected, then they need to deal with that. Reality and truth are important. 'Feelings' (yours, mine) much less so.

cheers, alan














.
 
lewis20126 said:
Nice little interface between 'beliefs', 'feelings' on one side and facts and reality on the other.

Most birds / images of birds are demonstrably identifiable and the identity of bird in the image becomes (is) a reality.

If an observer's feelings are hurt, when (if) a mis-identification is corrected, then they need to deal with that. Reality and truth are important. 'Feelings' (yours, mine) much less so.

cheers, alan
.
Click to expand...



Totally agree



A
 
I am quite enjoying this discussion. I've only had a couple of incidents similar to this ever occur.

The first was while birding a local hotspot in Minnesota. A talkative fellow approached us on the trail to ask about what we had seen. He didn't have bins and did not seem to be birding, but he certainly tried to come off as an expert. He was telling us how he'd seen many species in such-and-such place, and that the best one was a "Wilson's Flycatcher." At first I figured he must made an honest mistake and meant warbler, but he talked about it with such authority that it was actually quite comical. I didn't say anything because we were just trying to get away from him and see birds.

It did become useful later. I had been looking for a new way to describe that most common of species, the Clump Of Leaves Resembling A Bird Shape. We used to call them Leafbirds until we went to Asia and realized there are real Leafbirds. So now when I put my bins on a distant dead leaf or whatnot and my wife asks me what I've got, I tell her that it is just a Wilson's Flycatcher.

Or a Pelagic Sunbird. Or a Racket-Tailed Pitta. Or a Melodious Stork. Or a Sedge Petrel.

The second case involved someone claiming to discriminate between the Rock Pigeons and Rock Doves of Ecuador.
 
lewis20126 said:
Nice little interface between 'beliefs', 'feelings' on one side and facts and reality on the other.

Most birds / images of birds are demonstrably identifiable and the identity of bird in the image becomes (is) a reality.

If an observer's feelings are hurt, when (if) a mis-identification is corrected, then they need to deal with that. Reality and truth are important. 'Feelings' (yours, mine) much less so.

cheers, alan

.
Click to expand...


And clearly I agree too.
While I sincerely hope I never deliberately or gratuitously seek to hurt someone's feelings, if it is a by-product of politely suggesting someone reconsiders their ID then so be it. If this is the worst they face in life then they are very lucky indeed and should get over it.

I think I can state with some confidence that I have never reacted with anything other than gratitude when I've had it done to me. Not a rare occurrence.
Some folk are just waaaaaaay too sensitive, or pig-headed, for their own well being.

Mick
 
Last edited:
MTem said:
And clearly I agree too.
While I sincerely hope I never deliberately or gratuitously seek to hurt someone's feelings, if it is a by-product of politely suggesting someone reconsiders their ID then so be it. If this is the worst they face in life then they are very lucky indeed and should get over it.

I think I can state with some confidence that I have never reacted with anything other than gratitude when I've had it done to me. Not a rare occurrence.
Some folk are just waaaaaaay too sensitive, or pig-headed, for their own well being.

Mick
Click to expand...

Absolutely, it would be like getting upset about the X% error that exists in every single Birder's list, and in all their sightings!
 
One of the most bizarre cases I recall coming across, was a bit like the opposite of the "guide says so" scenario. A very keen young local bird guide at Bharatpur was once dismayed, when a lone American who was paying for his services disagreed with one of his calls: a large flock of Common Cranes in flight (something the guide saw every day that winter). The client said "no they're pelicans". When the guide tried to explain to him that they weren't, the client said. "I'm paying you to tell me what they are, so you're going to tell me that they're pelicans." ...Go figure!
 
Some people are willing to learn and happy to be corrected, others less so. It will be clear quite quickly what type of person you are dealing with.
I usually try tactics like: "It's not that easy, but..."
 
fugl said:
I generally lead with: “It’s a tricky ID, but. . .”.
Click to expand...

I would typically lead with

'You're wrong, your a s*** birder and will never be any good. Now, give me those expensive binoculars that are clearly no use to you then go home, sell your field guides and don't let me see you here again'

or at least that's what I feel like saying sometimes :-O




A
 
Last edited:
I'm picking up a bit of a trans-Atlantic difference in approach to this issue, with the Nearctic contributors favouring a kinder and gentler treatment of taxonomic miscreants. Is this just a symptom of being more polite over there*? Is this general politeness because the 'Wilson's Flycatcher' guy might be armed?
It is possible our more 'robust' approach this side of the pond may be counter-productive on occasion. I'm thinking RSPB hides in places like Leighton Moss or Minsmere, where I often detect a certain reluctance to share observations, perhaps for fear amongst the less experienced of calling the wrong species?

(* Depending on context of course...I asked for a coffee once in Portland (OR) airport - the response was 'you're polite, you must be British'...to which I replied 'you're polite too, you must be American')
 
kb57 said:
(I asked for a coffee once in Portland (OR) airport - the response was 'you're polite, you must be British'...to which I replied 'you're polite too, you must be American')
Click to expand...

Portlanders are different.They might refuse to sell you an umbrella because it rains '368 days a year, so get used to it', but they could also enter for the World Politeness Championships. Here's their take on that odd US custom, the 4-way intersection where each entry features this flashing red light:

' “You go.”
“No, you go.”
“But by all means, indubitably, you go right ahead.”
An hour passes…
To say that Portlanders are passive is an understatement. You’ll find out the first time you get to a flashing red light. Then all atomic motion ceases and a battle of wills begins. Everyone tries to lose by letting someone else go first. The fact that we all had to pass a driver’s exam at the DMV explaining how to properly yield right of way is meaningless.'
MJB
(From 15 questions not to ask a Portlander)
 
kb57 said:
It is possible our more 'robust' approach this side of the pond may be counter-productive on occasion. I'm thinking RSPB hides in places like Leighton Moss or Minsmere, where I often detect a certain reluctance to share observations, perhaps for fear amongst the less experienced of calling the wrong species?
Click to expand...

You may well be right: we do place a high premium on being right so put pressure on each other. Some get round the problem by saying nothing at all, which despite Ronan Keating's insistence is very rarely best.

However, you learn with your ears, not your mouth....

I never felt shy about saying "what's this?" because I am a filthy lister and the desire to know what I was looking at was always higher than the desire to avoid exposing my ignorance.

John
 
Farnboro John said:
You may well be right: we do place a high premium on being right so put pressure on each other. Some get round the problem by saying nothing at all, which despite Ronan Keating's insistence is very rarely best.

However, you learn with your ears, not your mouth....

I never felt shy about saying "what's this?" because I am a filthy lister and the desire to know what I was looking at was always higher than the desire to avoid exposing my ignorance.

John
Click to expand...

I think that often, the people we speak of are just VERY occasional birders who don't actually go out often at all. I know that some people who go out with local RSPB groups a couple of times a year, that is pretty much all they do.

I was lucky enough to have be 'raised' by some very good local birders and got a good grounding in common birds but I still make mistakes - a lot of em!

I also twitched regularly with one of the UK's finest birders, you have to be lucky I think and drop in with the right people. You can certainly improve but as I said before, some people will simply, never be very good, conversely, some people are just insanely gifted.


A
 
Last edited:
Someone I know slightly has just started posting his lists for a site I cover regularly on eBird, as I do. I was amazed at how many more species he was recording compared to what I see so I checked one of his lists and found 12 species that I just don't believe.

I have decided that the correct thing to do is to alert the eBird staff to the situation. How they react is up to them, but they need to do something otherwise the value of eBird to any user looking for info on this site will be worthless.

Steve
 
I don't want to be disrespectful but, in the identification thread, someone has posted a pretty good picture (Wb Nuthatch) and cannot even get the genus right. If they hadn't got the shot for others to confirm, it may have gone to ebird or similar as Bc Chickadee?

It illustrates my point that some people just aren't very good and possibly never will be.



A
 
What I often do is to wait a moment, then exclaim the correct bird (as I did not hear the wrong identification) and eventually point the important identification marks.

The social discomfort of disagreeing is on the other people, then. If they still oppose, I don't argue. One can take horse to the water...
 
Warning! This thread is more than 6 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Similar threads

J
  • Poll
Do you count heard only birds on your life list?
2 3 4
Replies
70
Views
2K
Lisa W
Lisa W
Andrew Whitehouse
Most misidentified birds in your area
2 3 4
Replies
73
Views
6K
hookem2010
hookem2010
Leafbringer
Most photogenic bird or fun bird to field sketch
Replies
0
Views
208
Leafbringer
Leafbringer
Z
Colombia Birding Advice
Replies
8
Views
2K
AliBellMeribel
A
Mysticete
How do you keep your lifelist, and what is included?
2 3
Replies
44
Views
4K
temmie
temmie

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Back
Top