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Sigma 30mm f2.8 for M4/3 (1 Viewer)

bughunter said:
Absolutly the same experience with the Sigma 30 on my G1 and my Swaro ATS80HD and the 25-50x wide eyepiece. No vignetting, nice mounting with the DCA (in opposite to the 20 F1.7 the front of the lens is _not_ moving during AF), but the quality can't reach the P6000.
Finally I have sent it back and continue to use the P6000.
I think now, that the shutter is may be part of the problem. See the movement here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dK6Qa1Iy4Y
A smaller sensor seems also have some advantages behind a scope.

Really pitty, I like the digiscoping with the G1 due to viewfinder and electrical remote shutter - but I don't like the quality of the pictures in comparison to the P6000 setup.
Click to expand...

This issue about mechanical shutters is a really interesting one. How much impact would they have on a well-balanced digiscoping system? Sony NEX and the new Canon Rebel use an electronic first curtain and a mechanical second curtain. Not sure if this would solve the problem?

The Nikon V1 would solve the problem but - as I understand it - you have very limited options for remote/cable release with both the V1 and with Sony NeX. The infrared trigger for the V1 only allows a single shot - not multiple shots. And it is impossible to fire single shots in quick multiple succession with the V1 because the camera screen goes into image review mode and doesn't allow another shot to be taken for a full second after each shot (which can't be fixed in the settings). I'm guessing that having to touch the camera to take a shot would induce more shake than a mechanical shutter does. This is what has put me off the V1. I'd love to hear from V1 users about how much of a problem this is for them or how they get around it?

P.S The images earlier in this thread look sharp to me. Were yours as sharp as this? - or are you trying for even better than this?
 
Robert,

Re. the V1. I've been using it side by side with my old Fuji F30 and agree that there's a problem with camera shake when pressing the shutter release by hand, even when using the very fast burst modes. To get round this I've attached this release cable from SRB Griturn http://www.srb-griturn.com/cable-release-bracket-for-compact-cameras-1965-p.asp

This model fits the camera and works well.

In general though I agree with bughunter above: small sensor cameras have a lot of advantages when it comes to digiscoping. The much faster shutter speeds I get with the F30 (compared with the V1) mean that camera shake is hardly ever a problem when using that one.

David
 
davpen said:
Robert,

Re. the V1. I've been using it side by side with my old Fuji F30 and agree that there's a problem with camera shake when pressing the shutter release by hand, even when using the very fast burst modes. To get round this I've attached this release cable from SRB Griturn http://www.srb-griturn.com/cable-release-bracket-for-compact-cameras-1965-p.asp

This model fits the camera and works well.

In general though I agree with bughunter above: small sensor cameras have a lot of advantages when it comes to digiscoping. The much faster shutter speeds I get with the F30 (compared with the V1) mean that camera shake is hardly ever a problem when using that one.

David
Click to expand...

David,
I'm not sure that I understand what you mean here. The F30 fires a burst at 2.2 fps for 3 frames, while the V1 fires from 10/30/60 fps electronically with no vibration from the camera. I can understand that the first or or two and the last one or two could show "finger shake" but surely not all 60. And wouldn't the same be true for the first and last with the F30 using the same finger?
Neil
 
Yes, sorry Neil, I wasn't being clear and also maybe overstated my case. My point was that I get much faster shutter speeds with the F30 than with the V1 when used at the same ISO. Also, with the F30 I often use the 2 second self-timer in conjunction with the 3 frames at 2.2 fps, so totally getting rid of shake. Obviously though, that only works with static birds.

With the V1 I need to learn to not be afraid of bumping up the ISO a bit.

And yes, the 60 fps usually does result in some sharp pics - even finger pressed at low shutter speeds. It's just that I sometimes don't have the patience to find them amongst all the rubbish ones.

David
 
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My initial experience with the Sigma 30/2.8 on 45xSW (AT80HD) is not very good as compared with the Oly 12-50mm. The biggest problem is the inability to focus quickly. Even in pretty good light the focus hunts a lot. Once it eventually focuses, the pictures are quite good. The Oly 12-50 which is a much slower lens focuses much faster. Will be doing some more testing tomorrow with the 20-60 EP. I'm really hoping this Sigma lens works better tomorrow.

Off the scope, the Sigma 30/2.8 is extremely fast focusing and takes very sharp pictures as a good walkaround lens for general photography.
 
More pictures with sigma 30mm MFT form different distances.

Working with an eyepiece magnification of 45x makes for an overall focal length of 2700mm :eek!: and an composite f-value of 16.9 (with a 80mm scope). It is certainly a difficult task for any AF system to find the proper focus field within such a system.

I have added some more pictures taken with my Swaro eyepiece at 25x leaving the rubber eyecap on, using the DCA adapter with the Sigma 30mm lens;
The wood sandpiper was at a distance of about 30m.
The teals were a bit further away (over 50m), and the juvenile starling was quite close (around 10m). Please note the tick in the neck of the latter bird.

An issue not yet adressed here is at what range most people use this lens i.e. is it good working near its close focus setting, intermediate or is it better near infinity ? This used to make a difference with compact cameras which usually worked best in their macro range.

Sjerp
 

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SjerPlover said:
Working with an eyepiece magnification of 45x makes for an overall focal length of 2700mm :eek!: and an composite f-value of 16.9 (with a 80mm scope). It is certainly a difficult task for any AF system to find the proper focus field within such a system.

I have added some more pictures taken with my Swaro eyepiece at 25x leaving the rubber eyecap on, using the DCA adapter with the Sigma 30mm lens;
The wood sandpiper was at a distance of about 30m.
The teals were a bit further away (over 50m), and the juvenile starling was quite close (around 10m). Please note the tick in the neck of the latter bird.

An issue not yet adressed here is at what range most people use this lens i.e. is it good working near its close focus setting, intermediate or is it better near infinity ? This used to make a difference with compact cameras which usually worked best in their macro range.

Sjerp
Click to expand...

Sjerp,
The Wood Sandpiper looks good.
You can't rely on AF with this setup. Even if the camera says the lens is in focus it might not be. Best to go with Manual Focus.
Neil.
 
Sjerp,
I follow this post since this lens might interest me for my NEX5. Just sent this message since your "teals" are in fact Garganeys...;)
 
@Rodrigues, thanks for the correction. I did recognize the birds as Anas querquedula but made the wrong translation form Dutch into English.

Uploaded two pictures of Eurasian Hobby. The same bird under two completely different lighting conditions in the same tree at a distance of about 40-50m and 25-30m high. Both manually focused: @Neil, thanks for the advice. The magnified EVF works great with MF on posting birds like this one. On moving subjects I still prefer the spot autofocus option of the Lumix G3.

The pictures are cropped quite a bit and subsequently adjusted using the SilkyPix software provided with the camera and exported into smaller sized .jpg files. In my experience, with any digiscoping system back-lit subjects are the most difficult to get descent results with. The sigma 30mm is not different in that respect.

By the way; I had a great time observing this species; they are so expressive. One can read their emotions from how they carry their feathers and form their posture.

Has anybody already tried the Sigma 19mm 2.8 on a MFT camera?

Regards, Sjerp
 

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SjerPlover said:
@Dear Grundy. It is difficult to determine the distance between the lens glas surface and the eyepiece in a closed system like the swaro DCA.
Anyway; after I read your post I tried leaving the rubber eyecup on the eyepiece and found no vignetting and still got proper focus! Somewhere on the www I read that the design of the Sigma 30mm f2.8 lens is quite unusual indeed i.e. near symetrical.

@Dear JHorton. The Sigma lens 30mm f2.8 is completely internal focusing without any moving parts. In addition, it is more silent as well as faster than the panasonic 20mm f1.7.

@Dear Bjorn. The 25mm Leica showed severe vigentting on my 25 - 50 eyepices in the shop where I tried it (I had taken the rubber eyecup off). Sorry for my wording being less precise but severe vignetting means to me in this situation: more than half of the visual field and of the unsharp type. i.e. The camera had difficulties with finding focus. It was more like peeping through a fuzzy keyhole.
With regard to vignetting on the 20mm "pany". In my hands on my 25-50x eyepiece just the very outer corners show a dark sharp edge. Did you take the rubber eyecup of your eyepiece?
Increasing the focal length of your system has its price through a detrimental effect on light transmission. See my questions and Tara Tanaka's ansewers on Digiscoper magazine:http://digiscopermagazine.com/?p=2098.
All observations presented above were on my Lumix G3.

Regards,
Sjerp
Click to expand...

Too bad the above digiscopermagazine link above doesn't work anymore :(
And the nikon one mentionned below by Sjerp :
I found the following link on Nikon sportopics very informative: http://www.nikon.com/products/sporto...tep1/index.htm
Click to expand...

Doesn't either, would somebody have some kind of archive for these ?

I'm "re"starting digiscoping these days with a panasonic G6, the panny 20mm pancake, a swaro ATS 80hd (25 50 ocular), and a digidapter (new version)

Quite happy with the set-up, the digidapter especially, is really practical, and allows fine tuning.

About the 20mm panny I didn't have any vignetting during firsts "through the window" indoor testing, and somehow in the field I then got some (not a lot), but overall it works quite well, some focus searching sometimes.

But thinking of getting the sigma 30mm.

Are people using it still happy with it overall ?
 
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Something better?

Hello Alain
Although the 30mm sigma is still going strong there is a thread on a very good alternative over here: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=280076 i.e. the Oly 25mm.
On a MFT camera this lens provides you with a focal length and field of view right in between the sigma 30mm and the Lumix 20mm at a given magnification on your scope eyepiece.

It is this lens which has been standard on my camera for about half a year now and I still like it a lot since it is so versatile. I try to find some time in the near future to post some more images to illustrate its versatility. We are amid of the migration season over here so I rather be outside than surfing the www or resizing images for uploading. ;)

Best regards,
Sjerp
"Drive less bird locally"

More images at:
http://poldernatuurblokhoven.blogspot.nl/
 
Thanks a lot for the info Jerp, think I will look into this one then :)

And I should also try to find more time for practicing !

Especially with the kind of amazing weather we have these days (even scary when thinking of climate change), is it the same in Holland, really warm and sunny autumn ?

Yves
 
Alain75 said:
Too bad the above digiscopermagazine link above doesn't work anymore :(
And the nikon one mentionned below by Sjerp :


Doesn't either, would somebody have some kind of archive for these ?

I'm "re"starting digiscoping these days with a panasonic G6, the panny 20mm pancake, a swaro ATS 80hd (25 50 ocular), and a digidapter (new version)

Quite happy with the set-up, the digidapter especially, is really practical, and allows fine tuning.

About the 20mm panny I didn't have any vignetting during firsts "through the window" indoor testing, and somehow in the field I then got some (not a lot), but overall it works quite well, some focus searching sometimes.

But thinking of getting the sigma 30mm.

Are people using it still happy with it overall ?
Click to expand...

I'm using the 20/1.7 and the Sigma 30/2.8. The 20/1.7 is very sensitive to the f stop with vignetting so needs to be wide open at 1.7. As it's externally focusing (as mentioned the Sigma is internally focusing) it will need some room for the AF to hunt a bit and this is where you can see a bit of shadowing. Some people use the lens in MF mode and that way you can push it right up against the eyepiece. Tara uses it this way and I do about 70% of the time.
You can also select a different format eg 16:9 which can help but your files are smaller.
The Sigma is a nice lens but the magnification is a bit high to start with.
Neil.
 
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Neil said:
I'm using the 20/1.7 and the Sigma 30/2.8. The 20/1.7 is very sensitive to the f stop with vignetting so needs to be wide open at 1.7. As it's externally focusing (as mentioned the Sigma is internally focusing) it will need some room for the AF to hunt a bit and this is where you can see a bit of shadowing. Some people use the lens in MF mode and that way you can push it right up against the eyepiece. Tara uses it this way and I do about 70% of the time.
You can also select a different format eg 16:9 which can help but your files are smaller.
The Sigma is a nice lens but the magnification is a bit high to start with.
Neil.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info Neil, yes wanted to try fixed focus on the lens, and only focusing the scope with the focus peaking help from the camera during my next session.
Do you know which fixed focus position is Tara using on the 20mm ? I have it right now on the G6, and the longer physical extension of the lens corresponds to the closer focus, or "macro mode".
 
Alain75 said:
Thanks for the info Neil, yes wanted to try fixed focus on the lens, and only focusing the scope with the focus peaking help from the camera during my next session.
Do you know which fixed focus position is Tara using on the 20mm ? I have it right now on the G6, and the longer physical extension of the lens corresponds to the closer focus, or "macro mode".
Click to expand...

I haven't heard that the Macro Mode on that lens makes any difference when digiscoping so I wouldn't worry about that.
Neil.
 
Neil said:
I haven't heard that the Macro Mode on that lens makes any difference when digiscoping so I wouldn't worry about that.
Neil.
Click to expand...

So when digiscoping only with the scope focus, and with the lens set to manual focus and not touching it, any focus will do ? Or is there a "rough" bracket which is more appropriate ?
(on a swaro video, I think it is said that the TLS APO has a fixed focus of 2 or 3 meters I seem to remember).

@Jan, thanks for the info, it is also cheaper than the Oly 25 (and lighter, quite important in my set up), but I should practice more with the 20mm for the time being probably :).
 
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In a few days I will have the chance to try a Sigma 30mm with a Nikon Fieldscope. I will tell how it works.
Sometimes I use a zuiko 12-50 and I tend to stay around that focal length so I think this lens might be a good choice.
 
As promised

SjerPlover said:
Hello Alain
Although the 30mm sigma is still going strong there is a thread on a very good alternative over here: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=280076 i.e. the Oly 25mm.
On a MFT camera this lens provides you with a focal length and field of view right in between the sigma 30mm and the Lumix 20mm at a given magnification on your scope eyepiece.

It is this lens which has been standard on my camera for about half a year now and I still like it a lot since it is so versatile. I try to find some time in the near future to post some more images to illustrate its versatility. We are amid of the migration season over here so I rather be outside than surfing the www or resizing images for uploading. ;)

Best regards,
Sjerp
"Drive less bird locally"

More images at:
http://poldernatuurblokhoven.blogspot.nl/
Click to expand...

As promised I posted some more pictures. The original thread of cwchang was 'outdated' so I started a new one:
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=295068

Sjerp

"Drive less bird locally"
 
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