Skywatcher 80ED + DSLR what do I need ? (1 Viewer)

oldhams · Feb 15, 2011

Sorry but confused with what is exactly required to start digiscoping with this scope and a Canon EOS 40D (inherited this). Having seen some sample shots and possible range (upto 4000 mm !!) I am keen to try this as currently have Panasonic FZ38 and keen to get better bird shots but cannot afford Canon prime lenses and longer lenses like 500mm .

I have seen on various web sites the Skywatcher 80ED and includes various components but not sure what is needed beyond the basic lens . I am looking at adding somehting like Kenko teleconverter (seen some 3x pro ones on ebay)

However seem to be different kits including different things like following

# Eyepiece Supplied (2"): 28mm LET
# 2”/50.8mm Di-Electric Star Diagonal
# Dual-Speed 11:1 2” Crayford Focuser (Backlash-Free)

What do I actually need to use as a digiscope. I have tried to glean from various threads but not sure i.e.

. extension tubes ?
. MAX DSLR adapter

Sorry but never used astronomical scope before so unclear on what is needed

Plus how is focus achieved - I know it is manual but are there any special considerations

Thanks

Paul Corfield · Feb 15, 2011

You will only need an extension tube and the Max dslr to be up and running. For the extension tube, something around 75mm is a good all rounder. It will let you focus from infinity down to around 9m. For the extension you can either use macro tubes or a 2" telescope extension tube. Some prefer one method and some prefer the other. Sometimes you might only need 50mm of extension and this can be easier to achieve with macro tubes or you need 2" tubes in various lengths. The screw together type macro tubes are quite cheap on ebay and I have a couple of sets I use quite often.

I wouldn't bother with the Kenko 3X. I had one and sold it very soon after buying it. They are quite soft compared to other much cheaper methods. Have a look at my thread on alternatives to teleconverters. Stripping down old zoom lenses that cost just a couple of pounds on ebay will yield the optics for a much sharper teleconverter. The optics I'm using at the minute from an old lens are sharper than my Kenko Pro 1.4X for example and I can vary the power of it from 1.6X to 3X without losing any sharpness.

Focusing is just done on the scopes focusing wheel. If your eyesight is ok and the view in the viewfinder is sharp then you should get good results. Start off practicing with the scope at 600mm and don't be too quick to ramp up the magnification. I find 1.6X to 2X is more than enough for nearly all situations.

Paul.

oldhams · Feb 16, 2011

Paul

Fantastic and I think that gives me a clearer idea. Again trying to work out stuff from your various threads it seems that the 2" 1.6x antares barlow is a very good option and I have seen these reasonably priced at rother valley optics. I think ripping apart old lenses to make teleconverters is too complex for me. So if I was going to go this route what is the complete setup. I think this is what I need

MAX dslr adapter
Antares barlow 2" 1.6 x
extension tube
scope

I see you mentions things about baffling and masking stuff - would this be required with 2" barlow ? Which extension tubes are the best to buy - ones from scopenskies website. Would I need a range of lengths

Also to double check it is this scope you have and not some other version.

http://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/evostar-80-ed-ds-pro-ota_d4491.html

Again I assume you can still use this scope as an actual telescope - do you ever use as a telescope for bird spotting or do you always have camera attached ?

Again thanks for all your help as you seem to be a real expert.

I am surprised few other people follow this route as it seems the cost for getting really close up pictures of birds is so much less than buying dslr lenses ?

Paul Corfield · Feb 16, 2011

The link to the scope is the new version but it's basically the same scope with a new paint job and a new dual speed focuser. The scope some of us have is the older gold and white version which I found out the other day is available here. It's around £80 cheaper than the new version. You would have to decide whether the dual speed focuser is worth the extra. The glass is the same in both.

The Antares 1.6X is nice but on the scope it gives 2.1X which can be a bit much most of the time. It only gives 1.6X when used with an eyepiece and you can't reduce the magnification when used for photography. The teleneagtive lens from the old zoom I used at the minute is slightly sharper than the Antares barlow and that lens literally only cost me £1. The lenses are quite simple to take apart. If you didn't want to do it then I'd really advise going for the Kenko Pro 1.4X and even that can be boosted to over 2X with a macro tube between it and the camera.

The scopes and skies extension tubes are ok and they do the Max dslr too. If you use a normal teleconverter then the longest extension tube should be fine. If you use barlows etc then get both lengths.

Paul.

oldhams · Feb 16, 2011

Paul

Again thanks for all the help. I think I may then look at Kenko converter as if things do not work out always easier to sell on or use in a normal DSLR & lens setup.

You said one was for sale on here for £80 cheaper than new version but I cannot see it - or do you mean on Ebay ? How much difference does dual focuser make - faster focus

By the way do you ever use your scope handheld at all - looks impossible to me given size but perhaps with fast enough shutter and steady hands ?

SO the things to connect are as follows

40D > kenko 1.4x > Max DSLR > extension tubes > Scope

How long should the extension tube be and will it allow focus from say 8M to infinity ? Is length 50, 75 or 100 mm ? What type of extension tube do you have between your Max DSLR & Scope - any particular make or where to buy

I can optionally add in macro extension tube between DSLR and kenko You say it can be boosted from 1.4 to over 2x with tube but does this really work and how long would extension tube need to be to obtain this ? - perhaps 50mm ? What is the disadvantge of buying 1.4x TC and adding extension tube as opposed to buying straight 2x TC - must be some - loss of light / vignetting ?

Again Paul thanks for all your help

Paul Corfield · Feb 16, 2011

Sorry, forgot to add the link to that scope. It can be seen here.

I've just been out an checked my extension tube. Mine is a 50mm tube with an extra long chrome barrel so I can pull it out to 75mm. A 50mm tube will allow infinity focus down to somewhere around 8-9m so I'd look for a 50mm one. At 75mm I can get down to around 5m but infinity is clipped but you can still get to a couple of hundred meters. My extension tube is an old 2" barlow that I took the glass out of but any of the shops that do a 50mm one should be ok.

The dual speed focuser doesn't allow quicker focusing, it has an extra wheel on one side and this is an ultra fine focus. I don't find it helps any and prefer just to use one wheel as it's much quicker. By the time you fiddle around with the fine tune wheel you likely miss the shot anyway. If you think you would want it then get the dearer scope as it's probably cheaper than doing the upgrade later on, only by about £10 though. A lot of companies make dual speed focusers to fit the 80ED if you went for the cheaper scope and decide to upgrade later.

I've used the scope without a tripod, hand held but you generally want to lean it on whatever is around, like a fence post, tree branch etc. It can be done and a tripod isn't absolutely essential.

I've posted an example of how the magnification goes up on the Kenko Pro 1.4X. A 60mm macro tube takes it to exactly 2X. One photo without tube and one with.

Paul.

thornlv · Feb 16, 2011

just looked at Kay optical again, I assume that this is the same scopoe without the fancy gubbins such as eyepieces, finder scope etc, the basic OTA.

Oldhams, you could look at this thread for joining up examples

Paul Corfield · Feb 16, 2011

thornlv said:
just looked at Kay optical again, I assume that this is the same scopoe without the fancy gubbins such as eyepieces, finder scope etc, the basic OTA.

Oldhams, you could look at this thread for joining up examples

Yes, that's the same scope but in the basic tube assembly. Someone else told me about the site and I hadn't looked through it to see what else they had. Not a bad price that, pretty much what I paid for mine a few years ago.

Paul.

alphan · Feb 17, 2011

oldhams, welcome to BF and Astro-telescope photography.

The OTA as linked in thread #7 are all you need for the scope. The diagonals, eyepieces and finders (if any) are only good for Astronomy. You should just get the scope, a Max DSLR adapter and extension tube of between 50-80mm to start shooting birds or anything that matters. Don't get yourself confused with Kenko 3X, 2X, 1.4X, Antares 1.6X, Barlows etc etc. I suggest you learn to shoot with just the scope at 600mm without any other tele converter. It's akin to learning how to run and climb before learning how to walk. Astroscope photography have a very different learning curve but once you got the hang of it, it's really fun and the limit of what you can do lies within your own imagination. It will also take a while for you to master the use of the scope + DSLR during which time you'll be pondering what you want the next step. Take it easy...(easier said than done) when I myself went through the same thing as you had done so far...LOL. I still use the most basic focuser (rack and pinion) and am happy with it. Never had the urge to upgrade to dual speed etc. It's more psychological than practical effect.

thornlv, that OTA certainly are cheaper than others on the market now. It's even cheaper than mine LOL.

oldhams · Feb 17, 2011

Paul & Alphan

Great advice & info on everything as you say seems great price of 249 for just the OTA as that is all I need plus the MAX DSLR and some extension tubes . As you say can look at TC , barlow etc. later.

I have seen some great sample shots by Paul & DiegoBE on Flickr which really show what is possible - compared to old style digiscoping of putting camera against spotting scope they seem much better.

Again thanks for all the help and I will let you know how things go

niccodeamus · Feb 17, 2011

I ordered one from Kay Optical last week, and today, finally, managed to get in touch with them to find out where it was. They don't have any, and their supplier will not get any for at least 10 days. I asked for my money back.
I have failed to find another "old generation" model anywhere.

oldhams · Feb 17, 2011

OK maybe I will try did they say they will ever get them in stock ?
By the way did you order a MAX dslr & extension tubes as well. If so which ones and where from still a little confused about the extension tubes to get

Paul Corfield · Feb 17, 2011

oldhams said:
OK maybe I will try did they say they will ever get them in stock ?
By the way did you order a MAX dslr & extension tubes as well. If so which ones and where from still a little confused about the extension tubes to get

Get the 50mm one, that's the one you definitely need.

Paul.

niccodeamus · Feb 17, 2011

i did order a tube and maxdslr, from Scopes'n'Skys. brilliant service, even got an email telling me which hour they would be arriving. and they did too. So I have been sitting on them with no scope. frustrating.
ordered another now (new model), for more money. but on the plus side, 50 sheets cheaper than last week.
I do want to use the astronomy part of the kit though. space is fascinating...and photographing it might be fun

alphan · Feb 18, 2011

oldhams said:
OK maybe I will try did they say they will ever get them in stock ?
By the way did you order a MAX dslr & extension tubes as well. If so which ones and where from still a little confused about the extension tubes to get

If your 2"-1.25" reducer (which normally comes with the scope with focuser) comes with e T2 thread (as usually does) you can get this cheaper type of adapter (China Made) http://cgi.ebay.com/T2-T-mount-Lens...Accessories&hash=item5196ea4d76#ht_1560wt_901 and this http://cgi.ebay.com/Macro-Extension...Accessories&hash=item5adacbd3d1#ht_2244wt_901 . The extension tube is more modular in the sense that you can get multiple length out of the set.

alphan · Feb 18, 2011

niccodeamus said:
I do want to use the astronomy part of the kit though. space is fascinating...and photographing it might be fun

You only need the astronomy part of the kit for viewing. With a modified telenegative of 2X plus more macro tube between then TN and camera giving a total of 4 or 5 X magnification (2400-3000mm) should let you photograph Jupiter with the rings quite clearly.

niccodeamus · Feb 23, 2011

At last my SW80ED arrived this morning from SW via a new supplier. I still havent got my money refunded by Kay Optical, a week after cancelling the order, they found the time to take my money seconds after placing the order....
a very dingy day, so not ideal for playing with a camera.
this test image was taken with a canon 1.4 tc, and a maxDSL tube between tc and scope. no tube between camera and TC, 1600 ISO

plenty to learn, a focused diopter helps as a start...

thornlv · Feb 23, 2011

Pretty darn good for a first time effort, in dingy light as well - this bodes well.

alphan · Feb 24, 2011

niccodeamus said:
At last my SW80ED arrived this morning from SW via a new supplier. I still havent got my money refunded by Kay Optical, a week after cancelling the order, they found the time to take my money seconds after placing the order....
a very dingy day, so not ideal for playing with a camera.
this test image was taken with a canon 1.4 tc, and a maxDSL tube between tc and scope. no tube between camera and TC, 1600 ISO

plenty to learn, a focused diopter helps as a start...

Excellent start there. What 1.4X TC are you using? That must be shot some 50M or more away .

niccodeamus · Feb 24, 2011

Its a Canon 1.4 tc.
much closer than 50m, perhaps half that. I use a full frame camera, so that will have a big effect. I have not yet had time to play much with any tubes to increase the magnification.
live view appears to be the best way of getting focus and composition, with the added benefit of MLU. however, at correct exposure settings the image is very dark. has anyone got a work around for this?
second, the balance of the rig is very rear heavy, my tripod head is struggling. this needs to be considered by prospective users

Skywatcher 80ED + DSLR what do I need ? (1 Viewer)

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