Help choosing my new scope (1 Viewer)

I am in the market for a new scope. I recently attended InFocus at Martin Mere. The guy there was excellent, very patient and no pressure. He set up several scope for me, including Opticron and Nikons.

I quickly got rid of all except the Opticron and Nikon scopes. I want the ED glass versions, to help my watching combined with digiscoping with my Nikon 4500 camera. I presently use a fairly cheap Kowa 602 scope which has done excellent service and I have had my moneys worth out of, but which does show its shortfailings when used with my camera. (Amplified by my crap photography!)

I was very impressed with both scopes and found it difficult to separate them. I particularly liked the clarity and DOV of the Nikon and its 82mm objective. What I did find difficult was the focusing. I am used to focusing using a small wheel, which moves the focus by small amounts easily allowing me to focus in very finely and easily. The Nikon has this big helical focusing wheel which I have to say I found it hard to fine focus!!

I would choose the Nikon scope if I was sure I could get along with this. I would hate to spend this money and then find I cannot fine focus it properly. I know you guys use the scope and obviously wouldnt be sat there with blurred images in front of you. So I am looking to be convinced that all will come good with practice!!!!!! Please can you give me your experiences with this.

Also the lenses are an odd mushroom shape. Will my camera easily attach and be safe using the correct adaptor with my eagle eye digi adaptor??

And last but not least, lenses! I am tempted to buy the zoom because of its flexibility. But do I really want to zoom to 60+?? I never have before (although I couldn't anyway.) Would I be better with a fixed lense, and maybe adding to this when I could afford? If so should I use a 20x or 30x??

A lot to ask you guys and gals I know, but as I said this is a lot of money I am spending and I can't afford to make a mistake.

Mick

Conversely I find the big focusing wheel easier - especially in cold weather out in the field. I've had no trouble digiscoping with the 78 ED.

I'm not a fan of zoom lenses. The 30x wide angle is a stunning lens and the limit you'd probably want to use digiscoping anyway. Other people are fans however...!

Jane Turner said:

Conversely I find the big focusing wheel easier - especially in cold weather out in the field. I've had no trouble digiscoping with the 78 ED.

I'm not a fan of zoom lenses. The 30x wide angle is a stunning lens and the limit you'd probably want to use digiscoping anyway. Other people are fans however...!

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I too use the ED 78. I use an old style eyepiece that gives 20x on a Nikon 60mm and 25x on the 78mm scope. I find that this gives satisfactory results when digiscoping, much better than the 38x that I have also tried with the Coolpix 4500.

Clive

Hi Mick, I can only speak as i find. I use optricon scope with HDF 16-48x zoom and find the flexibility very good also sharp. was a bit wary at first but glad i took the plunge, bought last year at in-focus Martin-Mere, just upgraded my bins to Opticrons DBA 8-42 at in focus.
bert.

mickporter said:

I am in the market for a new scope. I recently attended InFocus at Martin Mere. The guy there was excellent, very patient and no pressure. He set up several scope for me, including Opticron and Nikons.

I quickly got rid of all except the Opticron and Nikon scopes. I want the ED glass versions, to help my watching combined with digiscoping with my Nikon 4500 camera. I presently use a fairly cheap Kowa 602 scope which has done excellent service and I have had my moneys worth out of, but which does show its shortfailings when used with my camera. (Amplified by my crap photography!)

I was very impressed with both scopes and found it difficult to separate them. I particularly liked the clarity and DOV of the Nikon and its 82mm objective. What I did find difficult was the focusing. I am used to focusing using a small wheel, which moves the focus by small amounts easily allowing me to focus in very finely and easily. The Nikon has this big helical focusing wheel which I have to say I found it hard to fine focus!!


Mick

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I was at Martin mere three weeks ago doing exactly the same as you were doing and I was similarly uncertain about the Nikon Ed 82 and the Opticron HS 80 ED . But I could see a lot of chromatic problems on the Opticron that just were not there on the Nikon. I had previously priced a Nikon 78 ED from Warehouse Express at £730 as aopposed to the Opticrons £550 and finally chose to try the Nikon 78ED knowing that I could send it back within 7 days if I was not happy. I was happy and find that the only real differences between the Nikon you saw and the one I saw were that the 82 is waterproof and the 78 is water resistant, plus the 82 comes with a stay on case where the 78 comes with a carry case ( I'm now looking for a Stay on case ). I cannot recommend Warehouse Express enough, I ordered on a Tuesday, it arrived on Wednesaday at 9.30 only by this time I had found something out that they had not been aware of and asked for an angled scope as opposed to the straight one they had sent, no problems new scope here by Thursday 9.30 and the straight one returned on the carrier at no cost to me, oh and we'll reduce the price of the angled scope by £20 for you for our mistake. Brilliant service.
I found the Opticron easier to focus in the shop but having used the Nikon I now have no problems at all with it and I get happier with it by the day.
Digiscoping is easy with it, and I can see no reason why the Eagle Eye adapter should not fit and be secure.

mickporter said:

I am in the market for a new scope...

A lot to ask you guys and gals I know, but as I said this is a lot of money I am spending and I can't afford to make a mistake.

Mick

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I'm in the lucky position at the moment of having access to the new Nikon 82, Zeiss 85 and Swaro 65HD. The Nikon's ultra-fast focusing can be a real boon at times, and it works a treat with their stay-on case, but it takes a week or two to get used to its higher geared ratio. The Zeiss has twin focusing wheels - I find I only use the "fine" wheel and, again, soon get used to it. The Zeiss has such a wide angle zoom that, if you haven't tried it, please do before you decide (In Foucus sell it). The Swaro focusing is like the Nikon's but much less highly geared - which is a bit of a pain when you're used to the Nikon, but again absolutely fine after an hour or so. You'll get used to the nikon, I have no doubt. I've met quite a few Nikon owners - of the 82 and 60 - and all seem to sing the praises of the scope. It is a delight but the focusing can need care at 60-75x as it focuses very quickly indeed - a strength and a weakness.

I have both the zoom and the 30x W. I'm not sure whether or not I'd spend the money on the zoom if I'd bought the scope with the 30xW originally - as good as the zoom unquestionably is, and quite useful at times, that 30x is such a genuine beauty of an eyepiece, so wide, clear and well, like an extension of the natural vision really. Every time I look through it, it catches my attention and makes me think, "Wonderful!". The view through the Nikon has to be amongst the most noticeably clear and faithful that exist on the market. I was using an EDIII (60mm) for a short time recently and that is a true beauty of a scope, so small and solidly made. I should think, as others have said, that you could save money and get the ED78 and still have a wonderful scope - but if the cash is there I'd look closely at the ED82 (as well as the Zeiss 85T*).

I have the Nikon digiscoping adapter which, of course, works a treat (but you have to set the zoom before putting the camera over the eyepiece). I see no reason at all why the Eagle Eye shouldn't, too, but a quick phone call will sort out one way or another - Nikon are very helpful but might not know of the Eagle Eye adapter. Maybe take it along to In Focus - they are a very helpful crowd. I bought mine from their Rutland Water branch, with the 30xW from Titchwell - all the staff were exceptionally helpful.

You say you looked at the Opticron (ES80, I guess) - it is very good indeed for digiscoping, I hear, and I know from experience that it has very fine optics, especially for the price (with ED lenses, too).

Mick,

I, too, didn't like the focussing. I find I sweep it back and forth over the point of best focus before I'm satisfied. This is hard to do at the higher end of the zoom due to the gearing. But you do get used to it, and according to scampo, the focusing ring gets a little less stiff over time. The Leica focusing, for example, is much nicer to use, but I suppose the Nikon is quicker once you get used to it.The reason I went for the Nikon is because scampo sings its praises so much ;-) Actually it was for the compact size and I liked the idea of a 25-75x zoom. I'm very pleased with the scope and I'm missing it already (had to leave it back in the UK, along with the wife, but I'm not missing her). I don't think you'll be disappointed if you plump for this scope. Except perhaps when the price drops immediately after you've bought it (as happened to me).

Steve

scampo said:

You say you looked at the Opticron (ES80, I guess) - it is very good for digiscoping, I hear, and has very fine optics, especially for the money. I didn't feel it was as well made or durable as either the Nikon or Zeiss so very clearly are, though.

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Would fully agree but its half the price. That's the type of throw away review comment worthy of a certain magazine

True, Peter - and I deserve your reproach. I shall edit the mail in case it's not been read yet. Things done in haste, eh?

I do think very highly of the ES80 (but think Opticron are intent on causing as much confusion as they can over which model is which now...).

steverowe said:

Mick,

I, too, didn't like the focussing. I find I sweep it back and forth over the point of best focus before I'm satisfied. This is hard to do at the higher end of the zoom due to the gearing. But you do get used to it, and according to scampo, the focusing ring gets a little less stiff over time. The Leica focusing, for example, is much nicer to use, but I suppose the Nikon is quicker once you get used to it.The reason I went for the Nikon is because scampo sings its praises so much ;-) Actually it was for the compact size and I liked the idea of a 25-75x zoom. I'm very pleased with the scope and I'm missing it already (had to leave it back in the UK, along with the wife, but I'm not missing her). I don't think you'll be disappointed if you plump for this scope. Except perhaps when the price drops immediately after you've bought it (as happened to me).

Steve

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That's two jokes against our better halves in one day's posts (it was a joke, wasn't it?).

(-;

I'm glad my advice was helpful Steve. Try my best! (-; (-; Looks as if my son's going to be using the scope soon as I have done a swap around with my brother and now have a Zeiss 85. That Nikon (in with them at the mo for a repair) is an outstanding scope, though, for sure).

An advantage with the Nikon scope is that if you have a coolpix 4500 then all the Nikon accessories are readily available to easily connect the one to the other for digiscoping

And they connect it beautifully, too.

Thanks very much guys, very helpful and knowledgeable answers.

I didn't try the Zeiss, I didn't know they sold those, and wasn't shown it. I will ask for a demo. I think probably I will give the Nikon a whizz. At InFocus I can try it for week and if not happy take it back and change it. I have a weeks holiday due during April so that will be an ideal opportunity to test it out.

Thanks for all your help..

Bye the way I contacted eagle eye who because the scope is new were not sure if the lens was different than the predicessors or not. They said either way no problem cause if I send them certain measurements they will create me an insert for my exsisting adaptor at the same price. So no problems there.

The lens is the same shape I think but now has a sliding eye cup.

Do give the Zeiss a trial - you might enjoy the ultra wide zoom eyepiece.

Mick i am suprised you could not see any difference between the Opticron and Nikon82 as the nikon is twice the price.Iam sure if you had view in difficult lighting conditions then you would notice a difference.You may also like to try the Leica APO77(In Focus dont stock Leica)these with a 30x eyepiece are very well priced at the moment.The 30x eyepice i think is a far better option for digiscoping.

That's the new Opticron, Graham - I think it's quite pricey isn't it? But, like you, I'd be surprised if the Nikon weren't the brighter scope in tough conditions.

Ragna said:

Mick i am suprised you could not see any difference between the Opticron and Nikon82 as the nikon is twice the price.Iam sure if you had view in difficult lighting conditions then you would notice a difference.You may also like to try the Leica APO77(In Focus dont stock Leica)these with a 30x eyepiece are very well priced at the moment.The 30x eyepice i think is a far better option for digiscoping.

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Graham, like the rest of us you are assuming he's talking about the ES80 (and if I couldn't tell much difference between that and the Nikon I'd save £500!!) is it possible he's talking about the new HR80?

And Steve - yes Opticrons naming strategy drives me nuts.

Yes sorry guys to cause confusion but it was the HR80 I was comparing with. It is a little cheaper but not much.....

As I said it was not the brightness that concerned me but the focussing. I really stuggled getting the Nikon into sharp focus. As someone has already said it seemed to go either one way or the other past being in focus. I never really got to compare the brightness properly. I think I may go back and spend more time. This time also compare them with Zeiss. (Although looking at the Zeiss forum above here, it appears to be mainly moans and negative stuff posted!) Then maybe take up the offer of using it for a week and returning it if I am not happy. With what you have said though I should soon get used to it.

One of the great dangers with posting on here like this is that each particular model has its enthusiasts. Its like cameras. People on the Fuji camera forums have a huge rivalary with guys from the Olympus forum. Each will go to great lengths to defend his or her favourite brand. Wars often break out there. To a Fuji fanatic even if they brought out a matchbox with a pinhole in it, so long as it was branded Fuji it would be the best camera in the World. Far better than anything Olympus or Cannon could invent. HEHEHE.

I have to say on here I think you have all been very honest and helpful. Thank you for that. I suppose the real decision has to be a personal one. What one person finds particularly sharp and bright another will see colour fringing and not get on with it. Cost is also a huge factor. Whatever I buy, I have no doubts I will here next week standing its corner against the next bloke who asks my questions... LOL

pduxon said:

...
And Steve - yes Opticrons naming strategy drives me nuts.

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They're doing themselves no favours, are they? But maybe they think they know what they're doing. It seems to me that in the HR66ED and ES80, they had the basis of a pair of real winners, but instead they dilute the effect by launching yet another scope - with a non-retro fittable zoom, too (if that makes sense).

If you look at Andy Bright's digiscoping forum and website, you'll find he is much in favour of the Zeiss 85T*FL. Also the scope has a number of excellent reviews on the web

http://www.alula.fi/GB/index.htm
http://www.birdwatchersdigest.com/optics/optics7.html
http://betterviewdesired.com/bigscopes/index.html

The Zeiss is a very lightweight and compact scope for such a bright objective lens and its zoom is unique in offering about 50% more view at 20x than the next widest, the Swaro zoom. That ought to make it very appealing indeed as locating birds through a narrow field of view is none to easy (would we buy bins with a narrow fov?).

The Nikon ED82 deserves a trial because its image is so bright looking and faithfully clear to nature. I suppose the focusing issue is a plus/minus affair, but really, it soon becomes second nature and the speed of focus can be a delight. The Swaro 80 is, it goes without saying, a fine scope indeed, but at a price (and the Zeiss zoom is, in my view, a better birding zoom owing to its exceptional fov).