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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Crud in binoculars (1 Viewer)

M

maico

Well-known member
Crud in new binoculars

Sometimes you can see finger prints and debris on Zeiss prisms and internal crud.
See 6m 27s for the reason why...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q524cb2wFVQ

Look at the Fujifilm video on youtube at 3m 41s, the final lens assembly in Japan is done with everyone wearing gloves and facemasks and in a proper clean room.
Dirty Germans v clean conscientious Japanese basically !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iih0CP1H_Cw

Anyone got any links for Chinese binocular assembly lines like Nikon ?
Recently I inspected 3 x new Nikon Monarch 7 8x30 binos. Only a few speaks of dirt which were of no consequence, but the prism surfaces were not clean.
 
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Maica, post1,
I have visited different optical companies in Europe including their production lines and I can assure you the employees wear gloves and work in dust free rooms, so the chance of fingerprints and debris seems infinite small or non existent to me. Only once I found a little specle in a battry compartment of a new rangefinder compartment but that was all. On request of a retailer we aso have investigated some China made binoculars and that did yield very bad results in the sense, that the optical parts inside were not clean/dustfree at all. So your conclusions do not match ours.
Gijs van Ginkel
 
Gijs van Ginkel said:
Maica, post1,
I have visited different optical companies in Europe including their production lines and I can assure you the employees wear gloves and work in dust free rooms
Gijs van Ginkel
Click to expand...

Not at Zeiss. Watch the elements being assembled with bare hands in the video.
 
The problem with fingerprints is that fungal spores feed on them and then etch into the glass or coatings or both, I think.

I had a brand new Chinese waterproof binocular with well developed fungus inside.

The Kenco Lens2scope converters all had dust inside them brand new. Japanese company but made in Korea? Although longer eye relief than the old Japanese monocular converters such as the Vivitar TLA1, the field of view is small at 42 degrees, although they have tripod sockets. Overpriced, but I got them at a very reduced price. They have 10mm eyepieces 5 elements, 3 groups. Max exit pupil 2.5mm Eye relief 20mm. Straight or 45 deg angled. Black or white. Good idea but they shouldn't have dust inside.
The old Japanese ones are sometimes dirty or have fungus, but after 30 or 40 years.

I have had old Zeiss binoculars with moisture deposit or fungus inside, but Zeiss cleaned them F.O.C.

P.S.
The Kenko Lens2scope is made in Taiwan.
Attached to an old Micro Nikkor 105mm f/4 the view is good, but the field is very narrow at 4 degrees. A good 10x25 binocular makes more sense.
But as a long distance Loupe the view is impressive at the closest focus distance of 0.47m, maybe 30cm or 12 inches from lens front.
The foot takes lenses up to 800g. Anything larger needs the lens tripod socket.
For someone who wears glasses and has a selection of lenses it may be useful despite the narrow field, but inspect for internal dust first.
The dust was not troublesome when viewing.
 
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Some while back Diane Porter of Birdwatcing.com went on an organized trip to Absam and, upon her return posted a Swarovski video of their assembly line.

For some reason this video seems no longer to be available. I wonder if it was pulled.
 
Maico, post 5,
I have seen the video and on the basis of that video I find yor conclusions far too quick, since atd very step the optical components are checked, cleaned etc. with our without gloves depending on the process. If you can supply me with real convincing proof, I am open for it, but for now I do not share your conclusions.
Gijs van Ginkel
 
My experience is the same as Gijs's. Protective clothing like smocks, hairnets and different gloves or no gloves are all worn / not worn depending on the process or processes and how the components need to be manipulated.

Lee
 
Lee,

I thought that I saw one assembler, or whatever, part wearing a head cap and part not! As long as dried skin does not fall off the non wearing part, I guess that is OK, unless you buy a "crudded" one!
 
The-Wanderer said:
Lee,

I thought that I saw one assembler, or whatever, part wearing a head cap and part not! As long as dried skin does not fall off the non wearing part, I guess that is OK, unless you buy a "crudded" one!
Click to expand...

LOL. The worker probably knows on which side of the head the dandruff lurks :-O

As far as I could see during my visits, the protective garments/gloves depended not only on what process was taking place but what the next process was.

Lee
 
Maico,
I have watched the video and I have watched for a long period the full assembly of the Zeiss binoculars as a guest who was allowed to observe the whole process and every step was very carefully executed avoiding any dust or whatever to stay on lenses or prisms. The complete assembed insturments had a final carefull inspection so I would not worry at all if I were you.
Gijs van Ginkel
 
I think the process of air/nitrogen purging probably blows tiny bits of debris, the remains of bratwurst etc. from the barrels onto the elements. On my new Leicas some of the grease on the runners on the inner barrel surface has splurged out onto the matted surface, possibly during that process, making it more shiny than intended.

A minor point perhaps, but lubrication volatility is a cause of element haze on older camera lenses. Hydrocarbon molecules will be driven off or evaporated, a process accelerated if the optic is left in a hot car or the sun.

I'm not sure what part a nitrogen filling would play in that process. Years ago I used to deal in German made Sinn watches. Despite the complex seal systems and argon gas filling the watches still used to get moisture inside them. The copper sulfate capsules mounted in the case turn blue to warn of this. http://www.sinn.de/en/Ar-Dehumidifying_Technology.htm

I bet many Chinese made binoculars have leaked out any nitrogen content before they leave the dealers shelf's !
http://www.allbinos.com/index.php?test=lornetki&test_lo=18&roz=21
My Leica possibly likewise
http://www.allbinos.com/18.12-binoc..._8x42_binoculars_Leica_Ultravid_8x42_HD_.html
 
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The problem of grease transferring to iris blades of Japanese Minolta and Canon lenses was more or less cured by the mid to late 1960s.
However, many old lenses have more or less seized irises.

Zeiss Ikon lenses from the 1950s often have failed balsam, as do 1940s Kodak Aero Ektars.

Old Nikon lenses seem to have amazing amounts of dust in them, and old Olympus lenses fungus.

Very many old Porro prism binoculars have moisture and fungus in various stages in them.

I carefully check optics by shining a bright torch in them from both ends. This is a very severe test. Some optics are indeed perfectly free of visible dust etc.
 
maico said:
Look at the Fujifilm video on youtube at 3m 41s, the final lens assembly in Japan is done with everyone wearing gloves and facemasks and in a proper clean room.

Dirty Germans v clean conscientious Japanese basically !
Click to expand...

Maico, I have read on-line and in magazines about dust inside made in Japan photographic lenses. Should I jump to the conclusion that the people in the Fuji video were only wearing gloves and masks because of the video camera pointing at them, and that normally they don't bother?

I don't think so.
Best not jump to conclusions.

Lee
 
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Maico, post 16,
Nitogen gas is dry and the gas blown into the insturments passes a dust filter, that is what we do in our laboratory and there is no reason why Zeiss or other producers do not follow the same procedure. As far as leakage of nitrogen is concerned: if you leave your binocular in a hot cat for example it is very likely that nittrogen escapes, but in that car it is replaced by warm dry air, which contains a bout 80% nitrogen, so I see no problem and I have never found it to be a problem. For test purposes we often immerse binoculars, also the Zeiss ones, under a layer of water of about half a meter and the better binoculars never leaked water except in two occasions: one experimental model, that still had to be checked on request of the producer and one very small leakage in the top of the eypiece after a week of immersion. Looks not like a real problem to me.
Gijs van Ginkel
 
Er...maybe Polish H2O is thinner than Dutch ?
3 of the 4 German binos pictured in the Allbino bathtub for an hour are merrily leaking away. The Zeiss was made of sterner stuff :clap:
 

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