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Birders and photographers (1 Viewer)

Vivian Darkbloom

Well-known member
Returned to Cley for two weeks annual holiday after a year's absence. Immediately noticed the change in the profile and behaviour of those in the Cley Reserve hides.
There were far fewer birders with scopes and bins and far more photographers with large lenses covered with camouflage.
Whenever a promising bird came into view all hell broke out, with the sound of excited photographers clicking away becoming increasingly frenetic.
To exaggerate somewhat; It must have been like hearing the sound of the machine guns on the first day of the Somme.
Most of the people there adopted a similar approach; random bursts were directed in the general direction of a bird hoping that if enough shots were fired something worthwhile might be produced.
The quiet contemplation which I was hoping to achieve in the company of like minded birders is presumably gone for ever. Another casualty of the digital age.
 
Bird photography seems to be all the rage at the moment, next year it will be landscapes or puppies and the bird hides will return to the revered hush of the serious birder and their out of control grandchildren.
 
Returned to Cley for two weeks annual holiday after a year's absence. Immediately noticed the change in the profile and behaviour of those in the Cley Reserve hides.
There were far fewer birders with scopes and bins and far more photographers with large lenses covered with camouflage.
Whenever a promising bird came into view all hell broke out, with the sound of excited photographers clicking away becoming increasingly frenetic.
To exaggerate somewhat; It must have been like hearing the sound of the machine guns on the first day of the Somme.
Most of the people there adopted a similar approach; random bursts were directed in the general direction of a bird hoping that if enough shots were fired something worthwhile might be produced.
The quiet contemplation which I was hoping to achieve in the company of like minded birders is presumably gone for ever. Another casualty of the digital age.

Oh dear, here we go again - pre-conceived notions around 'birders and photographers'. I reckon you've probably got some pretty unshakeable opinions on the topic, so I may be wasting my time replying, but let's have a go...

- visiting bird hides on high-profile reserves has never been a guaranteed recipe for 'quiet contemplation', in my experience. (If that's what you need, go somewhere else - not difficult, even in comparatively crowded North Norfolk, and I doubt it ever will be). In the average hide there's often people talking, sometimes loudly, sometimes not about birds (shock, horror), sometimes some excited children, sometimes non-birders enjoying the place for the first time, sometimes people taking photos. Some you like, some you don't. That's no different now; there are just more of the last, much castigated, category. But the vast majority (like any other broad group of people) are friendly, courteous and helpful. I'm not really sure what they did that upset you so much; they were just enjoying their hobby, I imagine.

- have you considered that many people with a camera are also 'like-minded birders'? What makes you think they're so different? Sometimes I carry a DSLR and long lens, sometimes I carry a scope, sometimes both, sometimes neither... but nothing much else changes, still the same person, still enjoying the same things. (But most likely being stereotyped according to what I've chosen to carry that day).

- I'd suggest that the burst of shots were anything but 'random', much more likely coinciding with the subject bird doing something interesting, or striking a visually appealing pose. Taking a few photos at a time maximises the chance of getting the shot you want. And it's amazing how much more carefully you watch what birds are actually doing, and how much more behaviour you notice when you're trying to take photos - maybe you should try it.

In general - how about trying "live and let live"?
 
Vivian & Mono, you have described the situation in a lot of hides & are spot on. My wife & i, have only been birdwatching proper, for 3 years & have noticed a change, even in that short time. We find some photographers, do not appear that interested in the actual birds or wildlife, many seem to be trophy hunters, out to prove,that they have the better photo, or in many cases, have a bigger lense than the chap next to them. Of course , we have met many many birders with cameras & have enjoyed their company. Many have shared their knowledge with us & enhanced our day. Just because the person next to you, has bins, does`nt mean,they will always be nice people to share some time with. We take people as we find them & mostly, we encounter friendly birders & exchange cheerful banter.
 
We find some photographers, do not appear that interested in the actual birds or wildlife, many seem to be trophy hunters, out to prove,that they have the better photo, or in many cases, have a bigger lense than the chap next to them.

How did you reach those conclusions? Speak to many photographers, do you?

In particular the bit about "out to prove they have a bigger lens than the chap next to them" is fascinating... If that was all they wanted to prove or achieve, it wouldn't require hours sitting in a hide!
 
I have been birding for nearly thirty years now, so it is amusing to see these newbies pontificating.

It has taken me thirty years to work my way up to my present level of photographic kit (canon camera, 500mm f4 - qualifies for lens envy in a few places still).

While I was managing my cheaper kit I learned my birds, watched exciting and interesting behaviour and developed my fieldcraft. Its nice to sit in hides and have birds come to you: it takes skill, patience and dedication to take photos without that benefit. I can do it. Let me know when you can.

As for trying to take ever-better photos: is there no-one left in Britain that believes the pursuit of excellence, rather than revelling in mediocrity, is worthwhile?

John
 
There are always going to be twattish photographers, there are always going to be twattish non-photographers. Good luck when you actually meet one of the former, I suspect you'll implode.
 
Off to Cley in three weeks time complete with my shiny new DSLR and big lens. Hoping that all these birders don't cause unnecessary vibrations when I'm trying to capture that once in a lifetime shot.

On a more serious note the levels of intolerance shown on this site sometimes totally amaze me, surely there's enough room available for all the differing interests to be accommodated. There's far too much anti-twitching, anti-photographer, anti-dude and probably worst of all disbelief of others records.
 
Off to Cley in three weeks time complete with my shiny new DSLR and big lens. Hoping that all these birders don't cause unnecessary vibrations when I'm trying to capture that once in a lifetime shot.

On a more serious note the levels of intolerance shown on this site sometimes totally amaze me, surely there's enough room available for all the differing interests to be accommodated. There's far too much anti-twitching, anti-photographer, anti-dude and probably worst of all disbelief of others records.

EXACTLY!

It just makes me cringe that on three different days I could be equally happily in the same hide at Cley, and either:

a) birding, checking through all the waders for something unusual with scope and bins, maybe pointing one or two things out to people, maybe having a chat

b) trying to take photos of something, concentrating on that and largely ignoring everyone and everything else, firing motor drive frequently

c) twitching a really rare bird, having driven straight up from London after work and run to the hide, single-mindedly searching for it

...and apparently the same people would have utterly different opinions about me.
 
At the end of the day birders & photographers are there to enjoy the same things,I experience poor fieldcraft on both sides.Having been a birder & a photographer for 30yrs I get different kinds of pleasure out of either medium.

Steve.
 
I take the odd snapshot but I have to admit that I find the sound of the explosion of motordrives and burst mode shutters extremely irritating. There again I am sure that plenty of people get annoyed at the loud single 'clack' of the shutter on my humble camera. My binoculars are quite quiet though, as am I.

Ron
 
I take the odd snapshot but I have to admit that I find the sound of the explosion of motordrives and burst mode shutters extremely irritating. There again I am sure that plenty of people get annoyed at the loud single 'clack' of the shutter on my humble camera. My binoculars are quite quiet though, as am I.

Ron

You're bound to annoy somebody, perhaps your quietness will offend some, could be misconstrued as an air of superiority;)
 
Very interesting. I live in a relatively affluent suburb in Annapolis, MD and only started birding (I prefer a camera) about 6 months ago. There are many excellent areas, including a dozen or more large parks, and in all that time I have met exactly one birder.
 
and in all that time I have met exactly one birder.

And let me guess.. he was an ignorant loud-mouthed, lens waving snob, with no fieldcraft and rustly bright coloured waterproofs, stringing everything, and twitching in a gas guzzling 4x4 with his out of control dog, whilst ignoring you completely!
;)
 
Oooh. So cynical. Not at all.He was a fellow Vietnam Veteran well versed in the local birding sites and extremely helpful.
And let me guess.. he was an ignorant loud-mouthed, lens waving snob, with no fieldcraft and rustly bright coloured waterproofs, stringing everything, and twitching in a gas guzzling 4x4 with his out of control dog, whilst ignoring you completely!
;)
 
Could we have separate hides?

Preferably something draughty, damp and reeking of creosote, a couple of johnnies under the splintered bench and facing into the prevailing wind, for us camera-less silent old gits.

I hasten to add, through the magic of editing, that I'm not calling anyone else a camera-less silent old git. We know who we are.
 
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The quiet contemplation which I was hoping to achieve in the company of like minded birders is presumably gone for ever. Another casualty of the digital age.

It's refreshing to see that intolerance is alive and kicking in the hides at Cley ;) This suggests that being a like minded digital birder is an impossible combination?

I was at Cley a couple of months back and the hide I was in seemed to become a pre-breakfast social gathering place for a lot of elderly men who didn't really watch out of the hides at all but happily discussed each other's ailments and put the world to right - I machine-gunned the Mallards and got a few trophy snaps but I dont think they noticed. I hope I wasn't offending them!

Was I offended listening to their banal ramblings? Of course not as I hope I'll be like them one day - enjoying their time amongst their friends in a public place. Last of the Summer Wine. Should I have complained because one had an irritating cough and smelt of peppermints? No.

To expect solitude in such a public place is I believe misguided. Churches and libraries can be quite good though but the birding can be tough;)
 
I wonder where those photos in all the glossy magazines that everyone always enjoy looking at come from, the photo fairy perhaps.....?

Attached picture.

I was on my own, apart from the person taking the picture that is attached, waiting to photograph a Ruppell's Warbler in Israel with no one else around and the minute the bird appears where I had set up a crowd of birders behind me also suddenly appears. Although I wanted to move to a better position to get a leafless shot of the bird I didn't as I would have been blocking their view and would have upset their enjoyment of the bird, which they would not have seen had I not been there in the first place. I actually lost the shot I was waiting for. Us inconsiderate, annoying machine gun rattling big gun camera weilding photographers...

What's more annoying, sitting in a hide with photographers taking photos of the birds or a photographer who has painstakeningly made careful approach to get the confidence of the target bird only to have it flushed by a numpty birdwatcher coming right up behind you asking 'what you photographing'. Generally I now just point to the distant dot on the horizon and say 'that, until you flushed it'. Consideration doesn't always go both ways.
 

Attachments

  • Ofira Park Israel March 2012 WEB 033.JPG
    Ofira Park Israel March 2012 WEB 033.JPG
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I wonder where those photos in all the glossy magazines that everyone always enjoy looking at come from, the photo fairy perhaps.....?


What's more annoying, sitting in a hide with photographers taking photos of the birds or a photographer who has painstakeningly made careful approach to get the confidence of the target bird only to have it flushed by a numpty birdwatcher coming right up behind you asking 'what you photographing'. Generally I now just point to the distant dot now on the horizon and say 'that, until you flushed itr'. Consideration doesn't always go both ways.

Oh how right you are. I was on a rare spring visit to Scilly when a bunch of Golden Orioles were on Aggie. I panther crawled across 100 yards of Wingletang (we all know how much dwarf gorse there is on there, right?) and was starting to get slightly better than record shots when suddenly the two in the bush in front of me shot off for no apparent reason - not apparent until the aging numpty who had ignored the care and effort I took and marched briskly up behind me said "they were nice"! That's one non-photographer who is lucky to be still breathing.

John
 
Could we have separate hides?

Preferably something draughty, damp and reeking of creosote, a couple of johnnies under the splintered bench and facing into the prevailing wind, for us camera-less silent old gits.

I hasten to add, through the magic of editing, that I'm not calling anyone else a camera-less silent old git. We know who we are.

You`ve been to Lower test marshes in Hampshire I see?

Steve.:t:
 
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