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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Technical Knowledge and Optics Evaluation (1 Viewer)

bh46118

Well-known member
Do people that are the most knowledgeable in binocular and optics design also make the best optics reviewers ? Kind of like, does the head mechanic or technician of a Grand Prix race car also make the best driver of the car ? Or is the builder of a world class violin the best person to play the violin they built ? Maybe a couple of bad analogies. :-O
 
Do people that are the most knowledgeable in binocular and optics design also make the best optics reviewers ? Kind of like, does the head mechanic or technician of a Grand Prix race car also make the best driver of the car ? Or is the builder of a world class violin the best person to play the violin they built ? Maybe a couple of bad analogies. :-O

It's a good point.

I use my binoculars for birds and wildlife, so reviewers with an astro. background usually have little relevance for me. Same goes for sites like Allbinos, their testing seems skewed to astro. viewing, with high emphasis on low distortion and edge sharpness, but very little that actually describes the ''view'' of the binocular, at least little there to give me an idea of how well they would work for birding.

For me, the best review / reviewer would be an experienced birder who also understands the technical aspects of optics - and can describe what sort of image [of a bird etc.] a certain pair of bins will give.

I have always loved Henry's technical reviews, as they do indicate overall optical quality, some aspects of which will [no doubt] be evident to a birder in the field although I need to actually go birding with that binocular to be able to make any final judgement.

Birding and astro viewing have some stark differences, and what works for one doesn't work for the other. In birding, you are dealing with many different types of adverse / low / poor lighting, colour fidelity is more apparent / important and focus / depth of field / contrast is far more important. IMO of course.
 
Yes James, I would agree with that.

I find it difficult to give a birdwatchers appraisal as I have little experience of that.

I can only give technical and astro advice.

Distortion is not high on the astro list, but edge performance is.
And for me ghost images and veiling flare as I observe in the direction of street lights.
Many binoculars that birdwatchers praise, fail badly for me because of bad eyepiece design and bad overall design. They have terrible ghost images.

I have learnt a lot from this forum as people have a different need here.
 
Do people that are the most knowledgeable in binocular and optics design also make the best optics reviewers ? Kind of like, does the head mechanic or technician of a Grand Prix race car also make the best driver of the car ? Or is the builder of a world class violin the best person to play the violin they built ? Maybe a couple of bad analogies. :-O

I dont know if they are the best to review, I think they may be the best to appraise the quality of the build and components in the binocular.

I think to decide a best reviewer you have to look at who is reading the review, their level of knowledge and their uses for the binocular. I myself dont really care to much what the final specs may be on the bino, whether it is BK7 or Bak4 or what the techincal aspects of the bino coatings are matters less to me than the comfort of using it. Which is probably why I use the Yosemite more than any these days.

I read annabeths review of her Leicas, I liked it, didnt bore me with a bunch of details that really dont interest me as much as how well they actually work. Some times a product is more than the sum of it's parts, and if all you do is look at the quality of the parts you may not get a realistic view of how you will like them.

But I also like Franks reviews, he sure seems to know what he is talking about, but focuses more on what he sees than what the specifications of the bino are.

But not everybody thinks like I do, so I accept for others, they may like the technical details.
 
The best review/comment/explanation I have seen was something to the effect that " .... others looked dead in comparison."
 
In the case of the new SF, I wonder who Zeiss relies on to give the final OK on the image ? Do you build a binocular to a certain spec that should theoretically be superior then live with what you have, or are there many tweeks based on actual in the field observation by either in house reviewers or maybe even private citizens. And the tweeks. How many different things can be done in component quality and they're unique implementation to produce an innovative, class leading new product ?
 
Do people that are the most knowledgeable in binocular and optics design also make the best optics reviewers ? Kind of like, does the head mechanic or technician of a Grand Prix race car also make the best driver of the car ? Or is the builder of a world class violin the best person to play the violin they built ? Maybe a couple of bad analogies. :-O

'Doesn't really matter. Whether they were wannabes or experts, their words would be:

ignored by some, considered irrelevant by some, doubted by some, questioned by some, challenged by some, and largely forgotten within 72 hours.

Bill
 
I've always been used to being ignored by all. :-O

'Doesn't really matter. Whether they were wannabes or experts, their words would be:

ignored by some, considered irrelevant by some, doubted by some, questioned by some, challenged by some, and largely forgotten within 72 hours.

Bill
 
Kind of like, does the head mechanic or technician of a Grand Prix race car also make the best driver of the car ? Or is the builder of a world class violin the best person to play the violin they built ? Maybe a couple of bad analogies. :-O

Yes, this is probably not the right analogy. There is no such thing as an "expert in using binoculars". Binoculars are not like cars or musical instruments, they are tools likes spoons and forks. They should be designed such that everyone with minimal training can use and enjoy them.
 
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Yes, this is probably not the right analogy. There is no such thing as an "expert in using binoculars". Binoculars are not like cars or musical instruments, they are tools likes spoons and forks. They should be designed such that everyone with minimal training can use and enjoy them.

Ah, but look at the excellent work done by Cornell--you know, those folks who take such care in their studies. Like gathering the opinions of teenagers looking through warped, double-pane glass . . . at an angle. I'm sure that reveals lots of data. On exactly WHAT I don't know, but lots of data, anyway.

Bill
 
Ah, but look at the excellent work done by Cornell--you know, those folks who take such care in their studies. Like gathering the opinions of teenagers looking through warped, double-pane glass . . . at an angle. I'm sure that reveals lots of data. On exactly WHAT I don't know, but lots of data, anyway.

Bill

Probably tells you which binoculars they like the best. Seems it would be an equal handicap for all involved.

I dont see where you need to really know any kind of details about the binocular to know if you like it or not.
 
But I also like Franks reviews, he sure seems to know what he is talking about, but focuses more on what he sees than what the specifications of the bino are.


Thank you Perterra. I have a great deal of fun sharing my thoughts which may be why you enjoy my comments. :)
 
Probably tells you which binoculars they like the best. Seems it would be an equal handicap for all involved.

I dont see where you need to really know any kind of details about the binocular to know if you like it or not.

IF . . . all were exposed to the SAME handicap. &
IF . . . all were experienced enough to understand what they were seeing. &
IF . . . all were articulate enough to accurately describe what they were seeing.

I've seen some Cornell reports that appeared very scientific. I have seen others that looked like they were thrown together at the last minute.

Bill
 
IF . . . all were exposed to the SAME handicap. &
IF . . . all were experienced enough to understand what they were seeing. &
IF . . . all were articulate enough to accurately describe what they were seeing.

I've seen some Cornell reports that appeared very scientific. I have seen others that looked like they were thrown together at the last minute.

Bill



But, they would all know which one they liked best. Whether they can tell you what they liked or not is a different matter.
 
I think the binoculars that need the most reviewing are the ones with the most flaws. The view of a really good binocular is immediately enjoyable, and anyone with a decent set of eyes can pick up on that. If you have decent eyesight, you have the two main tools needed to critique optics. Some people though, can look through an EDG, FL, SV, HT, and just nit pick the living crap out of it. :-O Can a binocular ever be made that pleases them ?:h?:

Yes, this is probably not the right analogy. There is no such thing as an "expert in using binoculars". Binoculars are not like cars or musical instruments, they are tools likes spoons and forks. They should be designed such that everyone with minimal training can use and enjoy them.
 
IF . . . all were exposed to the SAME handicap. &
IF . . . all were experienced enough to understand what they were seeing. &
IF . . . all were articulate enough to accurately describe what they were seeing.

I've seen some Cornell reports that appeared very scientific. I have seen others that looked like they were thrown together at the last minute.

Bill

I am the lead author of many scientific papers including a peer reviewed article on the physical properties of small clusters of niobium that was published in a leading american science journal. The only problem is that I did not know this until I accidentally found out ten years later. I still have not read it, and certainly did not contribute a single word to the content. I might ask the journal for a copy so I can read what I did. Hopefully I will be impressed with the quality of my research.

I enjoy reading in the field user reports. The problem with optical tests is that they make too many assumptions, and simplifications, so they are far from complete, and hence they are misleading. Like a bathing costume, what they reveal is not necessarily as interesting as what they don't reveal. The MTF plot of a photographic lens is often taken as a complete description of performance. It is of course just a useful but incomplete measure of quality. Also some people forget that mechanical qualities are at least as important as optical quality. It is all very well having an uberfernglas that outperforms the latest roof prism binocular, but if it floods with water when dropped in a bog, and if the focus gets stiff in cold weather, so you fail to focus on the Dartford warbler before it hides, it aint much use is it?
 
I am the lead author of many scientific papers including a peer reviewed article on the physical properties of small clusters of niobium that was published in a leading american science journal. The only problem is that I did not know this until I accidentally found out ten years later. I still have not read it, and certainly did not contribute a single word to the content. I might ask the journal for a copy so I can read what I did. Hopefully I will be impressed with the quality of my research.

I enjoy reading in the field user reports. The problem with optical tests is that they make too many assumptions, and simplifications, so they are far from complete, and hence they are misleading. Like a bathing costume, what they reveal is not necessarily as interesting as what they don't reveal. The MTF plot of a photographic lens is often taken as a complete description of performance. It is of course just a useful but incomplete measure of quality. Also some people forget that mechanical qualities are at least as important as optical quality. It is all very well having an uberfernglas that outperforms the latest roof prism binocular, but if it floods with water when dropped in a bog, and if the focus gets stiff in cold weather, so you fail to focus on the Dartford warbler before it hides, it aint much use is it?

How many people, designing for the first time, will get caught up in Strehl ratios bordering on "one" without taking into consideration the system they have devised has a 37% obstruction?

So many misconceptions; so little time. :t:

Bill
 
In the case of the new SF, I wonder who Zeiss relies on to give the final OK on the image ?

Gerold Dobler has been a birder and nature observer, and a dedicated user of bins since his childhood.

I really don't want to make the guy sound like a super hero but his birding skills are very impressive and he definitely has opinions about what the view should be like for nature observations.

Lee
 
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