Kielder Ospreys (1 Viewer)

Pair been spotted on a number of occasions and have even built what looks like to me is a frustrastion nest on far side of the reservoir.

I have never heared of Kielder,just googled it and looks a nice place for ospreys,lets hope they stay around and maybe nest could be erected like up in the lakes.

Two birds were seen last week sat next to half made nest which can easily be seen with a decent scope from theroad.

Unusual for a pair to be sitting around this time of year i would of thought they would have to be a nesting couple.

I know quite a few ledges have been erected but not sure if any have been used.

Osprey's are always sited around Kielder Water and i would of thought it will be only a matter of time before they nest here again apparantely they did nest here in the 80s.

I've seen an Osprey taking a fish from Fontburn Reservoir, it seemed to fly in from the West and fly back towards Simonside. I would guess that was 6 years ago as I haven’t been to the reservoir for years.

Good news. Fingers crossed.

Indeed, but not the sort of thing we should be publicising. Bad guys read these posts too.

Alan Seaton said:

Indeed, but not the sort of thing we should be publicising. Bad guys read these posts too.

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It's very sad that in 2008 people miss out on so much because of the moronic minority. In cases like this I would think and hope that the security surrounding any possible nest would be fairly tight.

Hope isn't the same as security. We had security on a protected raptor's nest a while ago, but at the time it wasn't possible to run it 24 hours. The eggs were smashed. It's not about "people missing out", it's about the survival of eggs and chicks.

Not every nest can be given security, which is expensive on time, bodies and funds.

The best security is a tight lip.

Sad but true.

I wasn't trying to put people missing out ahead of the survival of the birds, the survival should always be the first thought without a doubt.

I've just been reading about traps being used on Peregrines and can't get my head around the thinking of these people, I guess I’m just naive when it comes to this type of thing.

Alan Seaton said:

Indeed, but not the sort of thing we should be publicising. Bad guys read these posts too.

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Bad guys live far and wide and not just in Nothumberland.

Osprey sites at Bassenthwaite/Loch of Lowes/Loch Garten/Tweed Vally are all thriving and are well known sites.

What's wrong with adding Kielder Osprey's to the list ???

If we have Ospreys up here then I am sure they could be given the same treatment.The more they are kept secret the more they have the chance of getting robbed if that is what you are on about.

Osprey's are thriving all over the country when did you last here of an Osprey's nest being robbed ????

After all why do they call the boat that takes you out onto the reservoir the Osprey ??

Why is there a photo of an Osprey on the wildlife leaflets in the Tourism office ??

When adverising do you not use something that is going to attract people's attention and use something that they might have a chance of seeing if they visited the area ??? Of course you do that's why you will never see the photo of a Scottish Wildcat on any leaflets to do with Kielder Water.

No one is asking where the nest is people just want to have a chance to see these birds without travelling miles away.

Why always use the Egg theft exuse up here there is really no need.

I can sort of undersatand with the Eagle's and Hen Harriers ete etc but not with Osprey's.

As for being tight lipped tell that to the person who told you and the person who told them and the person who told that person.

This is a Birdforum which is monitored anything which is not meant to be discussed will be removed if that includes Kielder Osprey's then that's fine by me if the subject is not removed then we can all feel free to discuss the subject like they do in other parts of the country.

Osprey's do not prey on Grouse, they do not take lambs,they do not take racing pigeons,they have no enemies in the farming/gamekeeping world all they do is eat fish and keep themselves to themselves.

And as we all know egg thieves will not risk jail or A £5000 fine trying to rob a nest which is being monitored.

I know of only one case in the history of Osprey's where a nest has been robbed while it has been being watched and since that many years ago Hundred's if not thousands of chicks have fledged without problems at all.

You've been banned once before from this forum and I hope the mods see fit to ban you again. All you ever contribute is comment, information and speculation on the breeding locations of rare birds of prey, which is totally irresponsible.

The locations you mention, which are made public, have round-the-clock protection. The ones you hint at do not. Egg theives still target nests, including Osprey... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/1984525.stm. People still shoot birds just because they have hooked beaks without reading up on their dietary habits... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/3729449.stm

Why can't you let professional conservation organisations make the decisions about the level of publicity which maximises protection and not unilaterally decide that announcing locations yourself protects them. If it were even nearly as simple as you seem to think, why do you think everyone except you believes there should normally be secrecy?

Graham

bitterntwisted said:

You've been banned once before from this forum and I hope the mods see fit to ban you again. All you ever contribute is comment, information and speculation on the breeding locations of rare birds of prey, which is totally irresponsible.

The locations you mention, which are made public, have round-the-clock protection. The ones you hint at do not. Egg theives still target nests, including Osprey... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/1984525.stm. People still shoot birds just because they have hooked beaks without reading up on their dietary habits... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/3729449.stm

Why can't you let professional conservation organisations make the decisions about the level of publicity which maximises protection and not unilaterally decide that announcing locations yourself protects them. If it were even nearly as simple as you seem to think, why do you think everyone except you believes there should normally be secrecy?

Graham

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I really think you do need to get your facts right.

Firstly I have never ever been banned off this forum before and for you to say so is totally unfounded.

I am sure you are going to come up with something but I can guarantee you this 100%.

Secondly I have never ever promoted a nesting site of any rare birds, all I try to do is give people the opportunity to try and see these birds and share information with to people I trust,no different to what anyone else does on here I suppose.

I am sure a lot of people watched springwatch the other night and seen Osprey's fishing at the fishfarm at Aviemore.

Do you think the Springwatch team and the BBC put these birds in any danger ?? of course not because the nest site could be up to several miles away or even more.

As for professional conservationists making all the decisions as to how much publicity birds should be given, this I agree with this is why the RSPB have never denied that there are Eagle's or Osprey's in Northumberland yet other people have when they do not even belong to a professional organisation.

These I would call "wannabe" protectionists who will never ever give you advice on where to see a bird of prey because they think that they are giving "something away " then if you try and find out off your own back you still come in for a lot of stick.

I think at the end the day there is a lot of people out there who want to see these birds but sometimes they are going to feel like they are doing something wrong when actually they are not.

Let me remind you we are talking about Birdclubs not masonic lodges there is nothing illegal or wrong with discussing where you might and might not see a rare bird of prey.

I see you did manage to find that an Osprey nest had been robbed in 2002 I think one robbery in 6 years in no cause for concern.

If you think the hundreds of nests over the last 6 years probably producing more than 600 eggs or even more two robbed is not good but not a high priority for the RSPB.

People in Northumberland would not even point you in the right direction to see any rare bird because they trust no one and that is a shame.

I have happily told peole where to see Eagles Sea Eagles and Osprey's without telling them anything about where they breed or where the nest is.

Most people with half a brain know in advance never to ask about this type of info anyway because they know they are going to get short changed.

Let me ask this question if there are at least 120 pairs of Osprey's and only 6 or so have round the clock protection this leaves easy 110 pairs without protection why are these nests not getting robbed year after year ???

If this was the 70s or 80s they probably would be, times have changed jail sentences and huge fines have dramatically reduced the chances of robbery stop making this an exuse and let people enjoy what you enjoy yourselves.

Fair enough, tell people that if they go to Kielder they have a good chance of seeing osprey, but why publicise possible nests or nesting attempts unnecessarily?
Believe me, eggers are still very active in this country and the north east has more than its fair share of them!!

If this is a frustration eirie , as is supposed then it might indicate that a disaster has already befallen these birds, and the description of the location seems to give fairly accurate impression.of the location
I think the most asked question in the information centres is "Where is the nest," "is the nest close by" "YES but I want to know where the nest is!!!!"and usually all within earshot of a dozen of so who want to know as well
Arguably in early days , possibly the loose lipped in the knowers (volunteers in other words, in the pub) trying to be impressive and fueled by the sincere and honest whatever they are, caused more than a few disasters.
Nests are still going down, birds are still being shot (though mistaken for a goshawk ,(true defensive statement ,honest,) lost to fish farm netting ,and caught on post traps, ( that bird lost a leg and and had to be destroyed and these are only Ospreys , the ones I know about and in recent times.

I presumed you had been banned because the last thing you did under your old username was enquire about getting a forged Schedule 1 license... http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=80599. When you then reappear under a new name i obviously assumed it was because you were barred under your old name. If you weren't barred you should have been.

You are utterly incorrigible - no amount of friendly advice and explanation given to you over dozens of threads will persuade you that this is not about you, it's about the birds. Nobody is trying to stop you seeing birds, they are just trying to protect them. And yet you seem to think it is a crusade against you personally by the "protectionists"

Persecution of birds of prey is not a thing of the past as you seem to imagine. In fact persecution is getting worse and worse all the time. Read the RSPB's Peak Malpractice report, or go to southern Sctoland or North Yorkshire and ask yourslef why there are no birds of prey in so much suitable habitat. And do you really think the example I gacve is the ONLY theft of Osprey eggs. How many of the other nests are raided because they are not watched and surrounded with razor wire?

Graham

bitterntwisted said:

I presumed you had been banned because the last thing you did under your old username was enquire about getting a forged Schedule 1 license... http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=80599. When you then reappear under a new name i obviously assumed it was because you were barred under your old name. If you weren't barred you should have been.

You are utterly incorrigible - no amount of friendly advice and explanation given to you over dozens of threads will persuade you that this is not about you, it's about the birds. Nobody is trying to stop you seeing birds, they are just trying to protect them. And yet you seem to think it is a crusade against you personally by the "protectionists"

Persecution of birds of prey is not a thing of the past as you seem to imagine. In fact persecution is getting worse and worse all the time. Read the RSPB's Peak Malpractice report, or go to southern Sctoland or North Yorkshire and ask yourslef why there are no birds of prey in so much suitable habitat. And do you really think the example I gacve is the ONLY theft of Osprey eggs. How many of the other nests are raided because they are not watched and surrounded with razor wire?

Graham

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Graham I would have to disagree.

All Osprey nests are checked on and monitored at some stage to see if

A Eggs are layed
B Chicks Fledge

This way the RSPB can give an accurate account year by year as to how many Osprey's have had young etc etc I would assume that all records are quite upto date as well.

If any nests at all get robbed we would read about it so I honestly do not think that there would be any instances since the one at dunkeld.

If there has been and we have not read about it then it still would not be more than one or two if that.

At the moment my post was about Osprey's not all BOP i know there is a major problem with poisoning trapping collecting but this is not happenning with all birds of prey so we cannot discourage people wanting to find out where certain birds of prey are because there is a problem with BOP right across the board.

This is still one or two far to many but not a reason to scare everyone away once people get wind of a pair.

Protectionists do try and stop you from seeing these birds and will do anything to discourage you from seeing them.

I was up at Northumberland 2 yearsa ago looking for Eagle's and pulled up alongside a guy in a layby.

After saying a brief hi I asked him if he had seen any, his response was a very sharpe no there is no Eagle's around here you have no chance mate.

I very politely told him well that's funny because there was one sitting on the hillside last week.

I thought he was an honest guy telling the truth until he started laughing,now he wanted to be my friend why because I knew more than him.

FANTASTIC welcome to the Northumberland birding community...........

If i did not know any better this guy would have had me travelling 5 hrs upto Scotland............why the lies ??? why could he not say "well mate they have been spotted around here but you will be lucky to see them because they only come over on the odd occasion now and you will be lucky to see one.

Why the need for the B*******

This has happened to more than me as well....for what.

The very thing these people are trying to discourage others doing they are bloody well doing it themselves.

Can you not take that fact in ??????????

People do not want breeding sites they just want to enjoy the Birds.

I have mentioned a frustration nest on open forum but whoooppppeeeee
if there had of been anything on the nest do you think I would mention it ??

Of course I wouldn't.

So in my personal opinion Osprey's are probably doing better now than they have ever done.

Do you not agree ????

We all know there is a problem with Hen Harriers/Peregrines and other BOP but like i have mentioned my post is not about those birds.

Nothing I have ever said on this forum has ever put any birds in danger or the post would have been removed WHY HAVE I NEVER EVER HAD A POST REMOVED ??

As for the fake schedule 1 that was meant to be joke apologies you did not see the funny side.

If you delve further than you already have done with regards to m y posts you will find one in particular which explains why I had to change my user name and it was a genuine mistake which i made when trying to log in from my girlfriends computer something I really do not need to explain over again.

Is there a risk in publicising BOP breeding or potential breeding sites - yes

Can we quantify the risk - not always

Can we remove the risk entirely - no

Can we reduce the risk - yes

For those reasons, perhaps a modicum of restraint is required.

Edit, obviously i was wrong

davidbridges said:

but also, Kielder does publisise the fact that they have a breeding pair alot therefore why should it be kept totally hush hush.

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Kielder certainly doesn't do the job of publicising them half as well as you and the Shark. Google Kielder Ospreys and you'll find the number one hit, and the only one to mention nesting is this thread.

Nice of you to explain exactly how an egger would go about raiding the nest as well.

Some time very soon blabbing like this is going to cause the demise of birds of prey in your area if it hasn't already.

Mods, can we please shut and delete this thread?

Graham

Perhaps you could give us a link to where Kielder "publicises that they have a breeding pair a lot", because this is absolute news to me.