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Thought this was a phoebe, but.... (1 Viewer)

lassa8

Well-known member
United States
At first I thought this was an eastern phoebe, but now I don't think it is, and I'm kind of stumped. The pictures aren't the best quality (I was almost standing under it and couldn't back up due to a creek), but it had a pale yellow breast that faded to white as it neared the face. I also remember seeing the eyeline seen in the first picture, so I'm pretty sure that's not from the angle the pic was taken at. (picture taken near the confluence of the des moines and mississippi rivers in extreme NE missouri)
 

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Thats no Phoebe.. now for the hard bit! The bill looks a little lightweight for Great-crested Fly - could it be ash-throated?... *waits for an extert on Tyrant Flycatchers* How about a Kingbird?
 
When I looked at kingbirds, I thought it closely resembeled the western kingbird, but I thought the Iowa-Illinois-Missouri border was a little too far east for them. Same with the ash-throated fly, but well within range for the great-crested. I haven't seen any great-crested pictures that showed the same white face I saw, though.
 
I'd go for Western Kingbird - there's no hint of rufous in the tail, it looks black with white outer edge to me, which is right for W Kingbird.

The Sibley map shows the eastern states to be liberally peppered with WK records, and now (migration time) is just the sort of time when a slightly extralimital record would occur.

Michael
 
The Sibley Guide shows a little orange dot (summer resident) in St. Louis, MO and Memphis, TN for the western kingbird, so I guess it really wouldn't be too far of a stretch to find one a hundred or so miles north?
 
Im going to have to disagree with Michael on this one, I think that it is a Great Crested. It apears to be brownish on top, which leads more towards a myiarchus flycatcher then the tyrant flycatcher. I think that the lack of orange on the tail might just be the light, or its a juvenile, and also if you look at the bill on the picture, it has a small amount of orange on the lower mandible. While the Westerns is all black, the great Crested shows a little orange there. In Missouri, the great breasted is also probably far more likely then a Western Kingbird, despite the small summer ranges shown in the Sibley (whose maps I have never trusted, especially for Michigan, but there are probably some small colanies in there somewhere). That my idea, anyone else agree?
 
Looks like a Great-crested Fly to me. I don't know how likely Ash-throated would be there, but it's definitely in that genus.
 
The only problem for me is its short-tailed-ness. Myiarchus flycatchers generally look more attenuated than this bird. Still, on my monitor, both the tail and the edges of the outer primaries show a brownish tint. That, and good old geographical odds tell me it is a Great Crested Flycatcher. Did it go 'wheeEP'?
 
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Strix said:
Looks like a Great-crested Fly to me. I don't know how likely Ash-throated would be there, but it's definitely in that genus.

Lightened up the photos so the colours show better! Too yellow underneath for an Ash Throated. Tail is ok so I'll go with Great Crested as well.

Hal
 

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Tero said:
I can confirm that Wester Kingbird has arrived in Missouri. Most likely that.

I don't think so. The bird in the photo seems to be a Great Crested Flycatcher as others have pointed out. Western Kingbird has black tail with white outer edges - not visible in the photo. WK has pure white chin and a narrow white band under the eyes that gradually merges into the light gray of the chest - not visible in the photo. WK has all black bill - bird in the photo has two-toned lower bill, horn colored near the base, darkening towards black at the tip, characteristic of the Myiarchus flycatchers that occur in the US. But the bright yellow belly that glows even in the shade clearly indicates this bird to be a Great Crested Flycatcher.

Dalcio
 
The thing that discourages me from thinking this is a Western kingbird is that the bib in the photos is so much darker gray than any Western I've seen, but more importantly that there are no "white sidewalls" to the tail, which even juvenile birds of this sp have, not to mention that this tail is definitely not black in the photos.

In the absence of hearing this bird singing, it sure looks more like a Myiarchus to me than a Tyrannus (I've only seen Great-crested once, two years ago). In Hal's brightened photos, the tail is starting to have a rufous tinge to the center with darker edges, which also leans more to Myiarchus.

Speaking of Myiarchus, I was just told I reported the first Dusky-capped flycatcher (Myiarchus tuberculifer) for our northern AZ county. This is a Mexican species that is seen widely throughout southern AZ but rarely north of Phoenix and never on "the Rim" (2,000' Mogollon Rim that geographically divides the eastern half of the state between north and south). We have Ash-throated flycatcher (Myiarchus cinerascens) all the time here in our yard (we have two as I "speak"), but had I not heard the Dusky-capped singing, it is otherwise almost indistinguishable from Ash-throated in the field.

Lassa, as Charles wondered, did you hear the bird vocalize at all?
 
I saw (certain) a great crested flycatcher today, and it made the same sound as the bird yesterday....so I think that solves this little problem. Thanks for all the thoughts!
 
Well, there are all kinds of fine points here. I have seen the Western Kingbird further west and it looks very similar. Birding maps would say that Great Crested is more likely for Missouri.

I'm still hanging on to my Western Kingbird tick, and will not check off this as Great Crested till I see a few more. The local species, whatever it is, I see no more than once a month.

distribution map of Western goes from Kansas west
http://www.mbr-pwrc.usgs.gov/Infocenter/i4470id.html

We have another thread going on Cassin's vs. Western, where..see the thread..this was probably Western
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=8195
 
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This is a classic case of why flycatchers are tough to ID, particularly from inconclusive photos, unless the person hears them vocalizing. As no two flycatcher songs sound at all alike, and with Lassa saying the bird in question made the same "sound" as a positively ID'd Great-crested, I'd say that clinches it.

The only reason I brought up my own sighting of an out-of-range Myiarchus a few days ago was to illustrate that range maps are really nothing more than a general guide -- although I see now in re-reading my earlier post I didn't make that point -- and birds daily prove the maps conservative. I don't have any doubt that Western kingbird could be seen in MO. I just don't happen to think that Lassa's bird is one.

Ultimately, however, it's up to each birder to decide on what he or she will tick or not tick, so whether we agree on what is presented here is really irrelevant.
 
I just saw MY St. Louis Missouri bird, I think it is the same one I see every week or two. It does not look like the picture in the OP, and I still see it as Western Kingbird. I have never been in a region to see the Great Crested where I could be sure of it as being the only likely bird for that area.
 
Tero said:
I just saw MY St. Louis Missouri bird, I think it is the same one I see every week or two. It does not look like the picture in the OP, and I still see it as Western Kingbird. I have never been in a region to see the Great Crested where I could be sure of it as being the only likely bird for that area.
Sorry, Tero, I don't know what your point is. Nobody's disagreeing with you about YOUR bird, nobody's saying that Western kingbird CAN'T occur in MO, and nobody has said that either sp is "the ONLY likely bird for that area." (emphases all mine) ????
 
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