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Warbler ID check (1 Viewer)

Sumit

Well-known member
Hi,
I have this one down as a Hume's Warbler (Phylloscopus humei).
But my warbler ID skills are limited and it would be nice to have a reconfirmation.
Shot last week at 7000 feet in the western Himalayas, India.
Thanks,
Sumit
 

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Hi Sumit,

As you know the identification of Phyloscopus warblers is often tricky but I think your'e probably right that this is a Hume's. The pale tertial tips rule out all of the largers species and the dark looking bill and legs, lack of a crown stripe and relatively elongated appearance seem to leave Hume's as the only option. That said the bird looks quite bright in appearance with quite well marked greenish and yellowish tones so it would have to be a Hume's at the bright end of the spectrum.

I believe Yellow-browed Warblers are rare in the Western Himalayas and would tend to show a paler bill base and whiter underparts (and probably more contrastingly dark greater-coverts). The other oprion would be Brooke's Leaf Warbler but that is also pale billed and also tends to appear more washed out than this.

It might not be possible to be 100% sure without hearing the bird call but Hume's seems the best bet.

Spud
 
looks like Humes is the best match, at least to me, but I am no master of warbler identification.

But a very good photo it is!

Joern
 
Thanks Spud and Joern,
I have a few more images of the same mixed hunting flock and am attaching another shot. The conditions were awful as mist was drifting in and light conditions have resulted in colour abberations. This image shows another angle and is in different light. And Spud, you are right, Yellow-browed has a more eastern range, Brooke's Leaf is in the known range.
 

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I'd agree with Hume's too, looks pretty much like the ones I've seen.

Worth checking to see if it needs to be added to Dennis' forum warbler year list or not.

Michael
 
I am sorry, am not aware of Dennis's list. Do you add Warbler images to this list if they are unrepresented?
Sumit
 
Hi Sumit et al,
It's amazing how much brighter the bird looks in the first photo than the second!Looks a lot more like what I imagine Hume's is like(haven't seen one:no Irish records yet and haven't been anywhere where they are found regularly)in the second photo,the dark legs are slightly more obvious.
I seem to recall that there are two races of Hume's(humei and mandelli):perhaps the variation in the species could be explained in terms of subspecific variation?Have seen pics of obvious Hume's,and also of birds almost as bright as Yellow-browed!
If I find one(would love to!),I'll make every effort to hear the call to clinch the ID....
Harry H
 
Hi Harry,
Shooting in the mist often results in stongly saturated colours if the flash can penetrate the mist well enough. It is amazing how bright the colours look once you put the image through Photoshop. By the same token, you often get the reverse result and no matter what you try, the bird will look flat.
I don't think ssp.mandelli occurs in the sub-continent. Also, the calls of all Phylloscopus warblers change in their winter home and they have not been studied/documented as well as they have been in their breeding grounds. You need real field experience to separate on the basis of calls and that assumes you can ID the bird in the 1st place visually.
Thanks to all who participated in this discussion.
Sumit
 
Sumit,

You're quite right about the calls differing from season to season though this only applies to Hume's I think and not Yellow-browed.

The call of Yellow-browed, at least in my experience, is always a rather inflected 'tseeweest', varying slightly in emphasis and volume but always with a lisping quality; in a European context it is most similar to one of the calls of Coal Tit.

By comparison Hume's has a distinctly downslurred 'visu' call (often doubled) which is mainly used in the breeding areas and sometimes used as a preface to the song which is a drawn out note quite similar to the nasal buzzing note used by Greenfinch. During migration and in winter Hume's has a quite different call which I usually transcribe as 'chewee' or 'chirree', it is sometimes rather similar to the call of Greenish Warbler (though less ringing) and may be likened to the calls of both White Wagtail and one of the chirruping calls frequently given by House Sparrow. This latter call does sometimes seem inflected but never has the lisping quality of the call of Yellow-browed. This latter call is one of the characteristic sounds of northwest India in winter where Hume's is extremely common, even in the centre of Delhi. I've never heard Yellow-browed there though the odd one must occur given how abundant the species is in Siberia in summer and it's well known tendency towards vagrancy. That said most Yellow-browed's migrate east and then south-west around the major obstacle of the Tibetan Plateau (as do many other Siberian species) and winter in south-east Asia rather than India. relatively few Siberian breeding birds take a more westerly route into India and presumably do so via the relatively narrow obstacle of the Hindu Kush (Chiffchaffs, Red-breasted and Red-throated Flycatchers, Siberian Rubythroats and Black-throated Thrushes being a few examples of species which take this shorter but more hazardous route)

I think there may have been reports of mandelli race Hume's in the far eastern parts of the subcontinent but it is most unlikely to be found in the western Himalayas.

By the way, when did you take this excellent picture?

Spud
 
Hi Spud,
Thanks a ton for taking the time and the trouble. The image was shot last week in the Dhanaulti area (near Dehradun). This bird was a part of a fantastic mixed hunting party consisting of about 50-60 Humes and about the same number of Black-throated Tits. We also saw Western Crowned, Greenish and Pale-footed Bush Warbler on the 3 day (160 bird) trip. I actually, am very proud of my Greenish Warbler image which is reproduced below as a thank you to all of you.
Sumit
ps> Hope it is indeed a Greenish!!!
 

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Hi Spud,
When (and why?!?) do Hume's change their tune? On departure from the breeding grounds, or on arrival at the winter grounds, or inbetween?
The ones I've had in Northumberland (three in November, one wintering in Jan-March) have certainly fitted your description of the winter call better.

Hi Sumit,
I'd agree with Greenish, but wouldn't like to commit myself as to which race, trochiloides, viridanus or nitidus. It looks very bright, but is this just the fog effect you mentioned above working again? Is that a geunuine median covert wingbar, or just a photo effect?
Also the proviso, that I don't know what Western Crowned looks like, and I've never even heard of Pale-footed Bush Warbler . . .

Michael
 
Hi Michael,
This is a clear day shot not in the same place/time as the Hume's.
Should be a genuine median covert wingbar, will check other images.
Cheers!
Sumit
 
Sorry Michael, I just don't know the answer to your question about the calls, it's temtpting to suggest that the summer call might actually be an alternate song but I really don't know.

The new bird does look like a Greenish but there are a couple of odd features:

1) That does indeed look like a genuine median covert wingbar which is quite unusual in Greenish but not unknown (especially in trochiloides)

2) The supercillium falls short of the forehead (but this might be due to moult?) whereas Greenish typically shows the supercillium forming a bridge across the forehead.

3) The greater-covert wingbar looks very long and of even width throughout whereas in Greenish it is usually shorter and tends to fade out and narrow inwards and is absent from the innermost coverts.

The first two of these anomalies might suggest Arctic Warbler but that is normally heavier billed, has a more prominent loral line and lacks such grey tones above. Along with Two-barred Greenish (plumbeitarsus) - which, in addition to the truncated supercillium and second wingbar, also shows a longer seeming wingbar like this bird!- Arctic takes the eastern migration route around the Tibetan highlands and is a very rare vagrant to India.

Despite these odd seeming features it therefore seems most likely to be a Greenish (either viridanus or nominate trochiloides) than anything else to me. the short loral line, mostly obvious just in front of the eye, certainly suggests a Greenish type. Just based on the photo though it is probably impossible to rule out plumbeitarsus.

Western-crowned is superficially similar but is typically a much brighter green above and has a bigger and more strikingly pale bill, also the pale crown stripe should be partly visible from this angle. Green Warbler (nitidus) should also be brighter green above and show a cleaner more yellowish tone below, especially on first-year birds, which this must be due to the relatively fresh wings (adults of the Greenish Warbler complex moult after migration so the wings are always worn in autumn and often lack clear wingbars).

None of the Bush Warblers (Cettia) show obvious wingbars and most are much browner than this bird with only Aberrant Bush Warbler really confusible with any green-toned Phylloscopus.

The photo is good enough to read the wing formula to some extent but I don't thave the relevant literature to hand at the moment.

Spud
 
Hi Spud,
You have got me worried about the ID. Hope the attached is useful in arriving at a decision. Same bird, different angles. One of the very rare occassions that a Warbler gave more than one shot. Eliminates Western Crowned, I'd say.

I just mentioned the Pale-footed as an interesting bird seen on the trip, was not referring to this bird.

Cheers!
Sumit
 

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Hi Sumit,

Yes, Western-crowned can certainly be eliminated, as can Arctic which almost never has such dark legs and shouldn't occur anyway.

I think it is very fair to say that this is a Greenish and now that the median covert wingbar looks so weak plumbeitarsus can probably be safely ruled out (though it was never really likely in the W Himalayas).

I think the only question is whether this is a viridanus or nominate Greenish but that is where I reach the limit of my knowledge and abilities! It does have a poor supercillium before the eye (though I wonder if this might be due to soiling by pollen or something) and a rather extensive greater-covert wingbar for Greenish but I don't think these features can seriously be used to turn it into something else. I wonder if trochiloides is more prone to show such features than viridanus, which is the form I've studied most?

Great pics, I didn't mean to make you worry!

Spud
 
My gut reaction was Two-barred greenish for the second bird, largely based on the feautures picked out by Spud. The lack of bridging on the supers looks like it is casued by feathers which are precisely concolourous with the crown. Add that to the general brith greeness and wing bar(s) especially the length and narrowness of the greater covert bar, I'd be pretty sure its not a standard Greenish!
 
"I'd be pretty sure its not a standard Greenish"

I suppose it depends on what you mean by 'standard'. In the Himalayas the nominate race (which might be thought of as THE standard) occurs and does show the features shown by this bird. Two-barred Greensh does not occur in India, or is at least an extreme vagrant there. My vote is therefore for a nominate race Greenish Warbler.

Dave
 
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