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Scandinavian Rock Pipit (1 Viewer)

Darrell Clegg

Well-known member
I was leading a walk at Hannafore, West Looe on Saturday. The weather was fine but windy, as a consequence there was very little to see and so we spent some time watching the Rock Pipits and Turnstones foraging amongst the seaweed. I was pleased to find two Scandinavian Rock Pipits almost in summer plumage, with grey backs, white supercilium and eye ring, and gorgeous peach breast. These were the first definite birds I had seen for many years, though I suspect that some of our wintering Rock Pipits are in fact Scandinavian Rock Pipits

My query is does anyone know why they are lumped with Rock Pipit and not given specific species status? Having watched these birds for about an hour and taken lots of video they seem to be nearer in structure to Water Pipit. In winter they look like Rock Pipit, but in summer they look like Water Pipit. I know that Rock and Water Pipit were lumped as a single species until about 15 years ago and wonder whether the taxonomists ought to have another look at this little group.

Darrell
 
I agree with you the Water Pipit is distinctly different from the Rock Pipit and the Scandinavian Rock Pipit is distinctly different from both. Perhaps in time they will be revisited again

Steve
 
This is a concidence. I was watching Rock Pipit on the Isle of Man two weeks ago. I took a reasonable picture of one which was a little greyer and had a more obvious super. being on the west side of the UK I thought it unlikely to be a 'Scandinavian bird', a sub-species that I have not identified before. Cornwall is obviously on the west too. Would you mind having a look at the attached picture please (bearing in mind it was taken from the car in a force 4-5 wind!) I have just realised I do not know how to attatch a pic to this reply - can anyone explain?
 
I'll be interested to see you picture too - I find some of the sepcies/subspecies splits hard to fathom. To attach use the Post Reply button rather than the reply box at the bottom of the thread - that way you get the option to attach a file.

Robin
 
Hi Richard, Looks to me like a littoralis - Scandinavian Rock Pipit. The supercillium is there, and it has started to get the grey back and peach on the side of the neck. It seems to have a few old brown feathers on the back, but the streaking is not as strong as in Rock Pipit. One of the things I noticed was how broad the base of the bill was when compared to nominate Rock Pipit - did you notice this on your bird?
 
Darrell Clegg said:
One of the things I noticed was how broad the base of the bill was when compared to nominate Rock Pipit - did you notice this on your bird? [/B]

Thanks,

What am I looking for? Wider or narrower? I did not notice because I did not look. However, I have some more pics of that bird and hopefully the base of the bill will be easier to see.

Richard
 
The bill was wider at the base. I don't know if that's a widespread identification feature, it just struck me as I was watching the birds that the bill was different. I'll check Svensson - Identification guide to European Passerines to see if there are any measurements

Darrell
 
Here is a video grab of one of the birds I saw on Saturday. Note the Grey back, white Supercillium, prominent eye ring and peach cast to the underside. See also the white malar stripe - a feature the Water Pipit lacks. how does this compare to your bird Richard?
 

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Here's a slightly more blurred grab but it does show the plumage characteristics off a bit better
 

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arryl,

I attach an enlarged shot of the same bird in a different posture. The bill is not particularly clear but it is possible to see how wide it is at the base. However, it seems much the same width as on petrosus pics that I have taken.

Your videograb is bright and clear. Even though 'my bird' does not have the malar strip I am now as sure as I can be that it was a littoralis. Thank you.

Richard
 

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Hi Richard,
I also think that your bird is a littoralis Rock Pipit,despite the fact that I've only seen petrosus Rock and no Water Pipits(Water Pipit and littoralis Rock are description rarities here in Ireland!)
Harry
 
A Scandinavian Rock Pipit has turned up at Marsh Lane, near Birmingham Airport. Now if only it would stay until saturday so I could look at this bird myself.
 
Glad to be of help Richard.

Hi Harry. Littoralis is a description bird in Cornwall too. I do think however that they are commoner than we imagine, it's just that we don't tend to take much notice of Rock Pipits. It is only at this time of year when they are acquiring their breeding plumage that they become obvious. I'm going birding in deepest West Cornwall tomorrow and I'll be specifically looking at every Rock Pipit to see if I can find any others. Certainly any inland Rock Pipit should be checked carefully. Steve said there was one in Bucks yesterday, and John J knows of one in Birmingham today. I'm willing to wager that 95% of all 'Rock Pipits' found inland are actually littoralis.

Darrell
 
Hi Darrell,
Going to the Old Head today,and will make an effort to look closely at any Rock Pipits that I see down there.Will let you all know if there are any littoralis.DID have a possible once at Ballycotton(greyer than usual),but views weren't great.
Harry
 
Well!! - I did go birding in deepest West Cornwall but I didn't find a single Rock Pipit!!! - not one!! zilch!!! Found a Ring-billed Gull though :)

Darrell
 
Hi all,
Only saw 3 Rock Pipits yesterday,all petrosus.At least 7 Black Redstarts,however,including an adult male.3 Chiffchaffs and 1 female Blackcap also noted,along with the usual Choughs(incl. a flock of 28)and a Great Northern Diver.
Harry
 
I am new to the birdforum, this thread interested me as the bird in the attached pictures was in South Cumbria (also on the west coast) in early March this year. There are no accepted records of littoralis for Cumbria - what do people think about this bird?

Stephen.
 

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