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Old Saturday 12th August 2017, 15:31   #26
pbjosh
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Bugmat, take a look at eBird for Trinidad, existing records of Gray Heron. There are many photos of juvenile Gray Herons in lists for Trinidad to compare.
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Old Saturday 12th August 2017, 16:43   #27
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Not a grey heron for me : structure and colours all wrong. Cocoi (which I've also seen many of)
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Old Saturday 12th August 2017, 17:55   #28
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+1 for not Grey and strongly leaning towards Cocoi
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Old Saturday 12th August 2017, 19:01   #29
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Bugmat, take a look at eBird for Trinidad, existing records of Gray Heron. There are many photos of juvenile Gray Herons in lists for Trinidad to compare.
Yes - I've seen juvenile gray herons before myself here (see attached), but I was leaning with the expert views here/locally (which if course can be wrong as is the sentiment here) and the fact this bird isn't a juvenile but also isn't an adult, and is more sub-adult so could look very different.

The reasoning at the start of the thread for 100% dismissing gray heron was not convincing or clear with comments calling it a great blue (which is clear it's not) and discounting size, which though ranges will overlap, generally leans towards grey.

If you say structurally this bird is not a gray heron wrt shape of the head etc that is a clearer answer - the comments included was the beak was too heavy (it didn't appear that way to me but I can concede it is probably bigger than the typical gray heron) and cap too black (despite the clear white streaking), but that doesn't discount a bird having a heavier than usual bill etc.

Anyway as I said I will leave it to the experts here who have a judgement system in place - no real vested interest as I've seen adult gray herons before (in South Africa) so it's not a life(r) or death situation

Thanks again for the comments.
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Old Saturday 12th August 2017, 19:21   #30
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Yes - I've seen juvenile gray herons before myself here (see attached), but I was leaning with the expert views here/locally (which if course can be wrong as is the sentiment here) and the fact this bird isn't a juvenile but also isn't an adult, and is more sub-adult so could look very different.

The reasoning at the start of the thread for 100% dismissing gray heron was not convincing or clear with comments calling it a great blue (which is clear it's not) and discounting size, which though ranges will overlap, generally leans towards grey.

If you say structurally this bird is not a gray heron wrt shape of the head etc that is a clearer answer - the comments included was the beak was too heavy (it didn't appear that way to me but I can concede it is probably bigger than the typical gray heron) and cap too black (despite the clear white streaking), but that doesn't discount a bird having a heavier than usual bill etc.

Anyway as I said I will leave it to the experts here who have a judgement system in place - no real vested interest as I've seen adult gray herons before (in South Africa) so it's not a life(r) or death situation

Thanks again for the comments.
For people living in Europe, it is obvious that your bird is not a (European) Grey Heron and immediately rings the bell for one of the American grey species (Cocoi and Great Blue are very close and were considered as the same species as recalled in HBW alive).

I identify on this forum American birds without field guides, I'm now working on Asian birds and cannot have all field guides in hand. As I saw a bunch of Grey Heron from Europe, Asia and Africa, I wanted to make sure since the start that you can exclude confidently Grey and avoid long discussion about it. Obviously it failed because you want us to confirm your initial identification, what no European will do.

The plumage exclude immediately Grey Heron, and the structure, despite your impression of little size that is not reliable (not because of you, size is very difficult to judge), is clearly the one of large and powerful New World Ardea.

With field guide or best memory, Nutcracker informed us the plumage excludes Great Blue, so the case should be settled by now.
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Old Saturday 12th August 2017, 19:33   #31
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For people living in Europe, it is obvious that your bird is not a (European) Grey Heron and immediately rings the bell for one of the American grey species

... you want us to confirm your initial identification, what no European will do.
.
I think you are perhaps being a little too sure of yourself - not saying this is a Grey Heron at all, but I think you will find many in Europe that would struggle to distinguish between Cocoi and Grey Herons, especially immatures.
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Old Saturday 12th August 2017, 19:39   #32
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I think you are perhaps being a little too sure of yourself - not saying this is a Grey Heron at all, but I think you will find many in Europe that would struggle to distinguish between Cocoi and Grey Herons, especially immatures.
You are right, my sentence is wrong. I mean all experienced European birders will see that op bird is not a regular Grey Heron.
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Old Saturday 12th August 2017, 19:40   #33
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I mean all experienced European birders will see that op bird is not a regular Grey Heron.
Are you sure?
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Old Saturday 12th August 2017, 19:45   #34
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Are you sure?
On television you have games with questions to the public as easy as "who is US president", Trump, Zuma, Macron or Merkel, and there's always 1% to say that is Zuma...

So ok, MOST is better
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Old Saturday 12th August 2017, 21:44   #35
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... I've seen adult gray herons before (in South Africa) so it's not a life(r) or death situation
No you haven't, you saw Grey Herons in South Africa (and yes, I just checked my S Africa field guide). No such thing as a "gray heron" outside of the minds of US imperialists
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Old Saturday 12th August 2017, 21:57   #36
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No you haven't, you saw Grey Herons in South Africa (and yes, I just checked my S Africa field guide). No such thing as a "gray heron" outside of the minds of US imperialists


Mind what you say, you might be prosecuted for supporting Kim's politic...
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Old Saturday 12th August 2017, 22:06   #37
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Mind what you say, you might be prosecuted for supporting Kim's politic...


Though I think Kim J-U would call it 왜가리 . . . or maybe just 저녁밥

(with assistance from Korean wikipedia )
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Old Saturday 12th August 2017, 22:08   #38
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No you haven't, you saw Grey Herons in South Africa (and yes, I just checked my S Africa field guide). No such thing as a "gray heron" outside of the minds of US imperialists
Well I use eBird and it won't let me use "grey" so... I'm English-speaking but the taskmasters here say I got to use gray! I've given up and settled fo rbeing brainwashed.
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Old Saturday 12th August 2017, 23:43   #39
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Thought everyone knew that Putin is the President of the USA...
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Old Saturday 12th August 2017, 23:44   #40
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...Also note that it's Grey and Great Blue which have been (are still by some?) considered conspecific, not Great Blue and Cocoi.
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Old Sunday 13th August 2017, 00:00   #41
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...Also note that it's Grey and Great Blue which have been (are still by some?) considered conspecific, not Great Blue and Cocoi.
You are right I read too fast.
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Old Sunday 13th August 2017, 00:02   #42
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Thought everyone knew that Putin is the President of the USA...
He is president of the whole World actually, whatever happens in any country, he is responsible.
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Old Sunday 13th August 2017, 00:04   #43
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...Also note that it's Grey and Great Blue which have been (are still by some?) considered conspecific, not Great Blue and Cocoi.
That must have been a long time ago! Certainly not now

On genetics (Huang et al., 2016), it's [purpurea] - [cinerea - [herodias - cocoi]]
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