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canon 12x36 II IS BINS (1 Viewer)

For quite some time now I consider buying a Canon IS; don't think it's going to be the
10x42 but when I choose heavy I want 18x50. Or 12x36 IS II.
I've seen both and they are both wonderful.
Maybe one this year, and the other one next year.
It slightly bothers me that the 12x36 IS II is no longer mentioned on the Canon website.
There are just 5 remaining IS models. Are the most wanted and best suitable birding binoculars of the IS series discontinued, or what?

Regards,

Ronald
 
Ronald - the 12x36 IS II is still showing up on the U.S. Canon website (http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=128&modelid=9836).
The 12x36 IS II is "only" 660g. The 10x42 IS L binocs are 1,030g. (That may be without batteries - 2 AAs for each.) The difference in weight is quite noticeable if they are hanging off your neck for hours. :)

Thanks, Jim.

Canon Netherlands have erased them from their website. I would have liked to ask them why, but I have to register via a customer account to send them an email and I can't be bothered.
An interesting thing in your US link caught my eye; the duration of the batteries in continuous use has tripled to 12 (!) hours, as a result of advanced technological design ( ? ) and lithium AA batteries. To my knowledge that used to be 4 hours, so that is good news.

The 10x42 IS L were nice when I tried them, but I found the 18x50 more rewarding. More detail in a steady image. Nice alternative for a scope.
The weight is not an issue in these big guns, they are all bl**dy heavy!
But worn on the shoulder or bandoleerstyle, it's acceptable.
Don't need a tripod, that's really nice and saves some kilo's as well.

12x36 IS II sells for 499 Euro's here, 18x50 IS for 979 Euro's.
Can't wait to get my hands on these!

Enjoy your 12x36's!

Regards,

Ronald
 
Hi all:

well im now in possession of 3 models of IS nocs: Fuji 12x32 jr, and canon 10X42/10X30's. right now the 10X30's are all i am using in fair weather. they are just great! very fine optics, first class porro view, maybe a bit of glare but doesnt bother me too much. there may be a tad more ca than the 10X L's, but honestly it's only visible on really hight contrast objects. they do have it all over the L's in the ergonomic arena, at least for me. reallly compact, fit the hands and face neatly, and have just the right amt of eyerelief for a spec wearer like me. i use them 80% of the time nonstabilized, only engaging the magic button when i want to make a critical ID or just enjoy the lil' birdie to the max. what i have noticed esp. is that in windy conditions, when warbs are foraging actively like they do when diving into the local coastal wood lots in migration, that eliminating one of those two forms of movement, hand shake, that it becomes much easier to spot and track the critters. my sample of the 30's, like my L's, does have that annoying focus drift when initially engaging the IS mechanism, and takes about 5 or 6 seconds to settle down, but it's a downside i can live with.

the 10X L's, despite being waterproof, a realy advantage around here, are just too bulky for me. like the gent above i have had to return mine to canon for realignment, X3. needless to say after time 2 i had been REALLY careful with them, but apparently putting them in a backpack and not so gently tossing them in an overhead compartment on a recent flight was enough to knock em out. have had no problems w/ the 30's, but have not had 'em long. on the upside, i cant say enough good things about canon's customer service, best i have ever experienced!

like someone else mentioned, there is a caution concerning taking them up to mountains: bubbles may form in the prisms, and "take a week or more to be reabsorbed" or words to that effect. no such warning on the 10 L's that i recall. i plan on calling canon and ask them "how high a mtn is too high", as i am booking it down to ecuador in a couple of months and will do some high country birding... may have to pack the L's instead.

the fujis lack the settle down time of the canons, but are nowhere near the optical quality of either of the canons, and are worse handling wise than the L's. i use them ocassionally but they have rotated to the back of the drawer over the last couple of months.

for really wet, wild fallout conditions i still grab the 7X FL's which are of course a brighter glass than the Canon 30's. However only in really heavy overcast, or at dawn or dusk is there a notable diff in practical terms, and as long as it's not raining cats n dogs the Canon 30's are the bomb for me.

i passed over the 12X's because i had the fujis, and due to the better close focus of the Canon 30's. i can recommend them unconditionally!

regards to all
UTC
 
Interesting write up UTC.

One comment ...

first class porro view

I've seen a couple of people say similar things but ... the Canon IS bins are roof prism bins.

It surprised me to when I found out as their external appearance is more like a porro than a roof. The reason they look that way is they have to come up with a scheme that allows the movement of the eyepiece to accommodate different IPDs without moving the objectives.

You can see this in the Canon patent for these bins: US Pat. 6191888 - Filed Aug 28, 1997 - Canon Kabushiki Kaisha (and in other Canon patents for other features of these bins)

http://www.google.com/patents?id=HBEGAAAAEBAJ

You can also see they have a field flattener just after the prism too (which would account for the "flat field" comments many make (though it probably compromises the DOF too).

Rather like the Switchview these are patented developments so unless Canon are willing to license the patents (for a reasonable amount) we won't see this in other manufacturers bins for another decade or so.
 
Kevin,

Thanks for the very interesting link. I don't think roof prisms have been used in any of the IS models that Canon has actually produced. Notice the two other Canon patents under "Referenced By". Those patents show Porro II prisms and Porro II is what the downloadable brochure at the Canon website indicates is used in all the current IS models.

Henry
 
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I've seen those patents. In fact I think they're development products not produced but used in testing in the 1990s.

There is another patent on the IPD adjustment system which clearly shows the roof prisms used in a shipped Canon product.

Note the increased detail level in the other porro patent drawings and the roof prisms drawings. Those latter drawings are for production.

I am sure these are roof prism bins.

Should be easy to tell ... view images illuminated with polarized light (i.e. blue sky illumination especially with low sun) through polarized sun glasses. If they look "weird" (compare with a known roof) then the are roofs.
 
There is a complete diagram of the Canon 10x42L IS optics here:

http://cweb.canon.jp/binoculars/10x42li-spsite/s_n/index.html

Unfortunately it's all in Japanese, but if (after the animation is over) you scroll down to the third set of characters and click, four red boxes will appear. Click on the upper right box. Besides showing the Porro II prism the diagram also shows the placement of the UD elements. Strange how Japanese websites often contain better technical information than the same company's international sites.
 
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Kevin,

Thanks for the very interesting link. I don't think roof prisms have been used in any of the IS models that Canon has actually produced. Notice the two other Canon patents under "Referenced By". Those patents show Porro II prisms and Porro II is what the downloadable brochure at the Canon website indicates is used in all the current IS models.

Henry

Henry,

Canon used roof prisms in the 15x45 IS, which is now discontinued (and that may be why! I don't think they were p-coated).

But some users loved them, and they are still sought out on eBay by collectors.

Here are some reviews of that model on excelsis:
http://www.excelsis.com/1.0/entry.php?sectionid=21&entryid=32

I was digging through my closet, and an old issue of Astronomy Magazine (July 1998) fell from the top shelf.

As I was browsing through it, I noticed that Orion Telescopes & Binoculars was selling the 15x45 IS for $1,399! That's about $500 MORE than you can buy a 15x50 IS for today.

Although Orion's prices on bins not carrying their label were often higher than average.

Still, that was a big stack of greenbacks a decade ago, considering Orion's Little Giant II 15x70s sold for only $269.

OTOH, in 1998, the price of Orion's 14x or 25x 100 SuperGiant was a staggering $1,249. Probably Japanese made from the look of them.

Thanks to production shifting to China (a mixed blessing), you can by an Oberwerk 25x100 for $399!

Can you imagine if you could travel back in time and tell a birder that he would have to pay over $2,000 for a top of the line birding bin in 10 years? He'd never believe you! I still don't believe it. :)

Brock
 
Ugh, flash too so one can't use translation tools on it!

I see one reference in Google shopping pages saying it's roof prism (not definitive).

And Canon's US site says they're "prism binoculars". Very helpful (and as you say "not so technical"). I thought they might be "field glasses". ;)

I see there are product specific web pages there that one can translate

http://translate.google.com/transla...culars/lineup/12x36is2/index.html&sl=ja&tl=en

It says "prism binoculars" too. I wonder if that's what the japanese called roof prisms (there is a mouse over for the original Japanese which I don't read or speak!).

Further down the specs: "Polo II prism".

They don't have any other roof prisms bins (the 8x32 in old products doesn't mention it's prisms).

Comparing with Pentax to see what they say:

The PCF (the porro) they just use the phrase prism

http://translate.google.com/transla...noculars/big/pcf-wp2/index.html&sl=auto&tl=en

and for the SP

http://translate.google.com/transla...noculars/big/pcf-wp2/index.html&sl=auto&tl=en

They use a kanji transliteration of the German Dachprizm ... "DAHAPURIZUMU". Hence the DCF and PCF. I guess that's the German influence at Pentax.

Hmmm, "Hybrid aspherical lens in the eyepiece lens (plastic glass) used to provide a clear view to the surroundings". Plastic? They have a CR39 element in their eyepiece? Interesting. Easier to form, I guess.
 
Kevin,

Yeah, "hybrid" is the euphemism for a spherical glass element aspherized by bonding an asherical piece of plastic to it.

If you're willing to trust Canon's official information just look at the English specs, either on the website or download the brochure and look at the specs chart. The Prism type for the IS models is listed as Porro II. The 7x42 and 8x32 non-IS are listed as roof as they should be. I thought the diagram would be good enough without translation since it shows a Porro II.

Brock,

I forgot about the early discontinued models. Maybe they did use roof prisms. Certainly the combination of IS artifacts and non P-coated prisms would explain the very negative memory I have of their optics.


Henry
 
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KP and Henry:

thanks for the interesting discussion! i had also read conflicting things on the net, and various retailers sites, concerning the main type of prisms used, but went with porro (think that's what's on the manual spec sheet) and because they have that "porro snap", if there really is such a thing. optically i am really impressed with the glass. the fuji has a soft, back and forth hunt in the focus where you are really not quite sure when critical focus is reached, and seems dimmer, more so than the extra mag would indicate to me, and less vibrant in color and way below the canon 30X contrast wise.

anyone in the market for a $350 or so glass really should give these a test drive,

regards,
UTC
 
Just saw this interesting thread. Thanks Kevin for the patent info. The first generation Canon IS bins, 15x45 and 12x36 I have roof prisms as well as the Fujinon stabilized bins. I think it was a good idea of Canon to switch to the Porro II design which was forgotten for reasons I don´t understand for a few decades in binoculars production. Using Porro II prisms enables a design of binoculars that is almost as slim as a roof design but without the difficulties that come with roof prism production. Obviously they go their very own way at Canon binoculars. I like that. On the other hand: the design and shape of the 10x42 Canon IS reminds me strongly to that of the Fujinon 12x32 Technostabi.

Steve
 
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