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Question on the SV 8x32 (1 Viewer)

Hermann

Well-known member
Germany
The only time I had a chance to try out an SV 8x32 for some time in the field was a few years ago. I can't remember when, but it must have been only a few months after their introduction. At the time I noticed quite a few things I liked, for instance the handling, but also the ease of use in general and the weight. Some other things I didn't like, namely some problems with veiling glare and reflexes when viewing against the light. But like I said, that was a pretty early 8x32, and admittedly problems with veiling glare and when viewing against the light are two of my pet peeves. I also felt at the time that that particular SV 8x32 wasn't quite as sharp as my SE 8x32 in the image center. It was clearly brighter though with excellent contrast - if the lighting conditions were right.

What I don't know is if Swarovski made any changes to the SV over the years, except the obvious ones like updating the coatings, something most decent manufacturers do more or less all the time. I'm especially interested in hearing about the performance of newer 8x32s in "difficult" lighting conditions.

I know most of the relevant threads here, including the discussions of the pros and cons of field flatteners and so on. What I'm after is some assessments by people who know the SV 8x32 well and ideally had a chance to compare early and late models.

Hermann
 
I have a brand new 8x32 EL SV, and it has plenty of veiling glare. Not as bad as my Opticron Oregon LE WP, but still pretty bad Imho. :smoke: I haven't owned or used the older SVs much, so I can't compare unfortunately. ;)
 
Apparently, some newer 42 mm SV's have more recessed objectives than earlier models. Has Swaro. done this to more recent 32 mm models?

This [deeply recessed objectives] work a treat for the HT's.
 
I have a brand new 8x32 EL SV, and it has plenty of veiling glare. Not as bad as my Opticron Oregon LE WP, but still pretty bad Imho. :smoke: I haven't owned or used the older SVs much, so I can't compare unfortunately. ;)

I also think that the SV has a bit more veiling glare than the older EL, but i would not describe it as "plenty". My SV was one of the first ones sold. My old EL is from 2004 and is the most glare free glass i ever tried.
 
I tend to see it more often. ;)
Maybe. I tried the SV and the EL against dark and back lit areas, looking at deep shadows at the base of a hill with the sun rising or setting just behind it. I also tried the two in deep forest, looking into the golden or red light and the shadows, just shy of looking into the sun. The EL is perfect, the SV is almost perfect. Both would show me a bird or a deer very well. The SV would sometimes, rarely, at some undetermined angle towards the sun, show just a bit of glare or flare or whatever it is, but only in the very bottom of the field of view and only occasionally, never with loss of image quality or focus. Not a big deal to me, due to rare occurrence.
And that's the way i see it.
 
Hermann,

I haven't tried the 8x32 SV EL, but I share your pet peeve, which is one reason why I like the 8x32 SE, even without the Bushwackers, it's very flare resistant. Another Porro that's very fare resistant is the Vixen 7x50 Foresta. Hard to induce flare even while pointing the bin in the direction of a low hanging sun.

The SE sold for about $650 before the price jumped after it was discontinued, and the Vixen for half that. So I have to wonder why they couldn't get this right on the $2K+ 8x32 SV EL? Didn't the designers field test the prototype before the company put it into production?

I would think most birders would find veiling glare disturbing since it happens when pointing the bins in the direction of the sun and also at an angle to the sun when it's low in the sky, near the beginning and end of the day. It really washes out the view and makes IDs difficult, so it should be a primary consideration in binocular design otherwise, to avoid it, you'd have to watch birds only when you can keep your back to the sun.

I was able to reduce veiling glare but not eliminate it in the ZR 7X36 ED2 by repositioning my eye, but to have to keep doing that all day to avoid flaring with any bin, but particularly one that cost over two grand, takes too much effort. You want to focus on finding the birds and looking at the birds, not repositioning your eyes.

I'd like to see another thread on bins that do not exhibit veiling flare or at least do a very good job handling it except under the most extreme conditions.

<B>
 
Veiling glare

I have owned two pairs of SV 8x32. My first pair I bought about three years ago. At first I did not notice any problem. Then during a trip to Colombia I noticed VG when in backlit situations with low sunlight. I sent them back to Swaro and they replaced them with a new pair. This was about a year after buying the first pair. Now, I can still sometimes see the effect, but only rarely and under very unusual circumstances. Doesn't really bother me any more. They are terrific bins, only surpassed by my 7x42 UV HD Plus.
 
I tested my wife's 8X32 SV and found that I can virtually eliminate veiling glare by moving a tad back from the eyepiece. There's so much eye relief I think people may be "inside" the veiling glare envelope(VGE). FWIW, I can induce this effect, to one degree or another, with every bin we own. For some models I need to remove my eyeglasses to get inside the VGE.

My wife has never once complained about her 8X32 SV and I've repeatedly inquired. She does not wear eyeglasses yet she keeps the eyecups down on both her 8X32 SV and 8X32 Nikon SE. Never a complaint with either binocular so I'm inclined to look at eye relief when veiling glare and blackout complaints arise.

PS
I just recalled immediately seeing veiling glare in the 7X42 EDG. It was late in the day, the bin has 22mm of eye relief and BANG there it was...VGE dancing around in the view. I will never forget it.

PPS
Long ago I learned to eliminate SE blackouts by doing the same thing...back off a tad from the eyepiece and the view is just fine.
 
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So far that I know using the only 8x32 SV I have, not a problem with VG. It is there and also same with the other Nikon models I have used for many years which is 8x32 SE and 8x32 HG L. The latter is sold now and the SE is a backup for my 8x32 SV.

Both is excellent but I get relaxed view with the SV, better ergonomic and friendly eyecups too.
 
Now you see it, now you don't! Too many reports of VG in this model to write it off as a "non-issue" since it obviously is for some people, and we've read such reports since this model was introduced.

It could be like many other issues such as CA, RB, too much pincushion, etc., that some people are more sensitive to it than others, in this case, perhaps because of facial features/eye positioning.

However, hgalbraith's account of seeing it one sample and not the other (except under extreme conditions) and James's report of more recessed objectives in the full sized model makes me wonder if it's not all in the eye of the beholder, but that Swaro might have made some changes to the 32mm model that helps newer samples to suppress VG better.

Or it could be both, which would make matters even more complicated.

Another Marvel Mystery.
 
So far that I know using the only 8x32 SV I have, not a problem with VG. It is there and also same with the other Nikon models I have used for many years which is 8x32 SE and 8x32 HG L. The latter is sold now and the SE is a backup for my 8x32 SV.

Both is excellent but I get relaxed view with the SV, better ergonomic and friendly eyecups too.

I agree about the SE, but I did see some VG with the 8x32 HG. It was FVG (flickering veiling glare), which is easily remedied by repositioning your eyes just a bit, but when I panned, I would see it flickering again, and have to reposition my eyes. So fine for a static view, but more work for panning. The poor fit for my hands was much more of an issue with the HG.

I also agree about Swaro's more friendly eyecups, best I've used for my facial features. The SE's leave "dents" in the bridge of my nose.

Then there's EVG (extreme veiling glare) such as the first version of the ZR 7x36 ED2 exhibited. Even with the sun 45* off axis, I could still see it, but on-axis, it was a complete "white out."

The point being that it's not all or none, that VG is not always so bad as to be a deal breaker (to those who are sensitive to it, apparently), but that depending on the bin, under the same lighting conditions, one bin could show a bit of VG, another more than a bit, yet another quite a bit, and one so badly that the view is completely washed out.

Much like lactose, I have a low tolerance for VG. ;)

<B>
 
Some interesting (and contradictory) observations here. HighNorth sees a "plenty of veiling glare" with his new SV 8x32s, Pileatus, hgalbraith and Jason don't find veiling glare a problem with theirs. Six Point Five sees some, but only in certain, rare conditions.

What I also found very interesting is Pileatus' observation that the eye position is critical with regard to veiling glare. That's something I didn't think of, especially as I don't have any problems with eye position with any of my binoculars, not even with the SE 8x32. Never had any blackouts either, and I leave the eyecups up. Maybe the different perceptions of veiling glare in the SV 8x32 are due to different facial features and eye positioning, like Brock suggested? Or is it because different people have different perceptions of what constitutes "a lot of" or "little" veiling glare?

If I were to rank some of the better known binoculars with regard to veiling glare, just to give you some idea of how I perceive veiling glare, I'd come to the following order:

1. Zeiss 8x42 HT and Habicht 7x42 (both extremely good)
2. Nikon 8x32 SE (good)
3. Leica 8x32 BA/BN (pretty good, but not as good as the Nikon)
4. Zeiss 8x30 BGATP Classic (clearly worse than the others, to my mind not acceptable nowadays), Habicht 8x30

The background to my question is that I've lately become interested in the SV 8x32, mainly because my birding habits have changed somewhat. Rather than mainly chasing rarities found by someone else, I've recently taken to working a local patch on a regular basis to find my own stuff, and that involves quite a lot of walking. I also have increasing problems with my back, especially when walking longer distances, so big and heavy binoculars are right out for that application. And I really don't like harnesses at all ...

So I want a waterproof alpha with a large field of view, a reasonably quick focuser and low weight, ideally not much more than 600 gr. That leaves mainly the SV 8x32, and as it happens there's a special offer by one of the local dealers at the moment, so I may take the plunge.

But, and that's a big but, lots of veiling glare would be a killer, and unfortunately that's something you can IME only really judge in the field, and not outside a dealer's shop in the middle of the city.

Hermann
 
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Hermann, i think that Pileatus is right, i think that eye position influences whether and how much glare we see in binoculars. I remember one evening at sunset looking over a large body of water and seeing glare. I adjusted the IPD a little and shifted my eyebrows and it was gone. It's cloudy here, but i will test for glare as soon as i have a chance and will report.
I used to see glare in another beloved instrument, the FL 8x32. Just the same, in the bottom of the FOV. After adjusting the eyecups a little and the IPD, the glare was gone. I have not seen it in years, though i often use that glass in the evenings. By the way, this one is much nicer in every way i care about than the Leica Trinovids.
I can have any binoculars i want. I am keeping the SV 8x32. The issue of glare is being overblown out of proportion. I think some contributors to this discussion are too sentimental about liking or disliking certain instruments.
And that's the way i see it.
 
Hermann, I just think you have to try the bins and find out for yourself. In the end, only you can decide if the veiling glare in the SV 8x32 is a acceptable for you or not. I hope the dealer will let you try them thoroughly before you decide on your purchase.
 
My HT's can have glare, if the IPD is set too narrow. With the IPD too narrow, it seems that you are now able to see aberrations that would normally fall outside of the field of view.

Maybe some of this with the SV's.

This is why I don't really trust short field reviews of binoculars. I have found it takes hours - or even days for me to get the IPD, eye cup position and dioptre set perfectly. If any of these are off, even a bit, 1st time users may come back and report less-than-stellar sharpness, glare, black-outs, too much CA etc.
 
I compared the 8x32 FL and the 8x32 SV when the issue of glare came up before. If by veiling glare you mean a sort of milky, washed out look then the FL was actually worse than the SV. This affects your ability to look into shade with a strong sun nearby.

But the SV does have those bright crescents that flash as you pan. Eye relief/position makes a big difference. If I shift my eyes up just a bit the "flash in the pan" more or less goes away. I think Pileatus' take on it sounds right to me.

I really don't remember how my 8x32 SE would have compared to these two--sold it long ago. I kept the FL and didn't have the SV yet.

In any event the 8x32 SV glare is not an issue for me. I will try to make it an issue if that pleases anyone. ;)

I once used the 8x32 SV for an entire week in Florida. Every morning I was out walking the beach before sunrise and after, watching all the birds and dolphins and mostly looking east into the sunrise. I vividly remember the wildlife, but I honestly don't remember any glare problems.

Mark

PS: I wear glasses and for the most part I use the 32 SV with the cups out to the first position. It's a small increment, maybe 2+ mm, but it makes a difference and I can still easily see the fieldstop.
 
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How does the Ultravid Hd 8x32 stack up with vg ? if a lightweight Alpha is what`s required.

My 42mm shows very little, the 32mm`s fov is 7.7deg, not quite the Sv`s equal but pretty wide.
 
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