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1cy Caspian Gull with very dark underwing, Israel (1 Viewer)

mäkpe

Well-known member
Hi!

Is this dark underwing ok for Caspian? It seems to be good Caspian in all the other respects. Photos taken in Ma'agan Micha'el in 16th Nov 2012.

Cheers
 

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Underwing looks better for michahellis..don't know if they hybridise with cachinnans?..However I'm sure that a man who knows!..will be along shortly.
 
Well, not easy birds for me, I'm sure Lou will give definitive answer. IMO underwing dark for Caspian. With this tertial pattern, I think about heuglini, but the mantle seems very pale, especially compare to coverts...
 
It's way too advanced for 1cy heuglini. Michahellis is an option but i thought the bill is more in line with cach? I could easily be wrong :)
 
I think this is a as good as it get Caspian Gull. When zooming in the axillaries they don´t look solidly dark and as such it´s most probably whithin the variation of Caspian.

JanJ
 
hej petteri,

absolutely cachinnans. michahellis never looks like this: http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=416254&d=1353864384 - i mean: broad tail band, narrow transversal bands towards base on outer rectrices, more or less plain greater coverts with pale tips, pale grey scaps (2nd gen) with longitudinal black streaks just along shafts, then the strong contrast of a more or less white head to strong streaking in lower hind neck ("shawl") which is often the case in well patterned cachinnans.
bill is better for cachinnans on pointed tip - upper mandible shows less curvature than in the blunt tipped michahellis.
what about the dark underwing? it's a sticky myth that caspian gulls can not show dark underwing. in juveniles i photographed in the danube delta at least 50% where surprisingly well marked, some well matching michahellis. and many 1st cycle eastern michahellis are paler than well marked cachinnans! important is that it doesn't look uniform dark but is parted by paler bands (median coverts etc).

have a look at these caspian gulls:

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures/birds_uploaded/8552_lar-cac-1k-stubben-18112005.jpg

http://www.lou.bertalan.de/gulls/pic/vh/up_0555.jpg

http://www.lou.bertalan.de/gulls/pic/vh/up_0547.jpg

http://www.lou.bertalan.de/gulls/pic/vh/up_0566.jpg
 
At the other extreme,here's a first winter Caspian from today with a really pale underwing.

Pete.
 

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