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The common midwife toad range in the past (2 Viewers)

locustella

locustella

Well-known member
Would anyone take a look at this:
https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/25855#page/576
and check, whether they say about occurrence of the common midwife toad (Alytes obstetricans) in current Poland (approx. east of the S-N line of the Oder river) ?
(pages 562-567 in the book, 576-580 in pdf)
This is in German, moreover written using Gothic script. They write something about 52N and 28.5E. 28.5E longitude is a little strange.
Or maybe anyone knows something about occurrence of this amphibian in that area ? It was introduced near Wrocław in the area of the Ślęża mountain (Zobten in German) in 1894 by R. Knauthe, but extincted.
Thank you in advance.
 
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It indicates that a smidgen above 52*N is the northernmost distribution and that the range stretches over 28.5* East from Cape Ferro in Spain to the vicinity of Nordhausen Niedersachswerfen.
 
etudiant said:
the range stretches over 28.5* East from Cape Ferro in Spain to the vicinity of Nordhausen Niedersachswerfen.
Click to expand...
So this is not longitude, but range in degrees, difference in longitudes ? But maybe they mention towns, rivers, lakes in current Poland or even located more to the east ?
Nordhausen Niedersachswerfen is far west of the Oder unfortunately, so they probably don't say about anything east of this river.
 
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locustella said:
So this is not longitude, but range in degrees, difference in longitudes ? But maybe they mention towns, rivers, lakes in current Poland or even located more to the east ?
Nordhausen Niedersachswerfen is far west of the Oder unfortunately, so they probably don't say about anything east of this river.
Click to expand...

The river Weser and eastward along the Leine to Alfeld apparently approximate the eastern end of the range, which is listed as being from 9*E to 28.5*E and from 37*N to 52*N.
The article mentions several towns, but identifies Hameln as the northernmost and eastmost location. The various place names given are in reference to documented sightings or collection all around the perimeter of the range, the Clausthal and Teufelsthal were especially thickly populated among the more easterly locations.
 
etudiant said:
The river Weser and eastward along the Leine to Alfeld apparently approximate the eastern end of the range, which is listed as being from 9*E to 28.5*E
Click to expand...
28.5*E looks like mistake.
But everything seems to be located significantly west of the Oder river. Thank you so far.
 
locustella said:
28.5*E looks like mistake.
But everything seems to be located significantly west of the Oder river. Thank you so far.
Click to expand...

The various place names mentioned all appear to be west of Berlin, which is at 13.25*E. So I don't understand the 28.5*E claim either. It would extend the range far into Moldavia, several hundred miles east of Warsaw.
 
Information about the occurrence of this species on the territory of present Ukraine appears in some books from the early twentieth century (in Galicyjskie [Galicia] Podole):
http://www.rcin.org.pl/Content/1771/WA488_6052_147_Hoyer-Klucz-do-oznaczania-zwierzat.pdf
(page 66 in pdf)
but it is assessed as doubtful, unbelivable. However that could be at 28.5E very approximately.
There are also present rumors about occurrence of this species in Poland or in Pomerania (NW Poland). But that is not approved at all, at least not assessed by herpetologists.
Officially this species is classified as alien, extinct:
http://www.iop.krakow.pl/ias/gatunki/789
But I don't understand, what does it mean - alien - extinct or alien and independent extinct populations of native animals. Maybe they don't know themselves.
Most likely it has occured only in Western Europe, I am asking this question just in case.
 
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locustella said:
Information about the occurrence of this species on the territory of present Ukraine appears in some books from the early twentieth century (in Galicyjskie [Galicia] Podole):
http://www.rcin.org.pl/Content/1771/WA488_6052_147_Hoyer-Klucz-do-oznaczania-zwierzat.pdf
(page 66 in pdf)
but it is assessed as doubtful, unbelivable. However that could be at 28.5E very approximately.
There are also present rumors about occurrence of this species in Poland or in Pomerania (NW Poland). But that is not approved at all, at least not assessed by herpetologists.
Officially this species is classified as alien, extinct:
http://www.iop.krakow.pl/ias/gatunki/789
But I don't understand, what does it mean - alien - extinct or alien and independent extinct populations of native animals. Maybe they don't know themselves.
Most likely it has occured only in Western Europe, I am asking this question just in case.
Click to expand...

Well, the report did emphasize the relatively narrow range of this species and certainly reflects a good bit of effort gathering the data. So the glaring discrepancy between the text's stated range of 28.5*E and the 12.5*E 'easternmost record' from Hamlin is striking.
The report indicates the call is quite distinctive, so perhaps it could be found fairly readily if it is present.
 
locustella said:
Maybe that is 28.5*E at all and 12.5*E in Germany ?
Click to expand...

The introductory text says the species is range restricted, about 20* longitude from 9* to 28.5*E longitude and 15 degrees latitude, from 37* to 52*.
The contradiction with actual experiment is explicit and it seems implausible that a range of only 4*, from 9*E to 13*E longitude would not have been called out. So there must be missing records from further east that justified the 28.5*E claim.
 
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