• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Historical Review of Swift 804 Audubon Binoculars (1 Viewer)

Ed, rather than spend the money on getting Nicolas to evaluate them, here's my idea for a diagnosis. Understand that I know just enough to be dangerous! Based on the star images, I suspect the optics have some astigmatism (or maybe spherical aberration). But during the day the images are quite sharp and enjoyable to look at. Why? During the day my pupils are closed down such that the effects of the defects are minimal to none, as my smaller pupils are seeing only the central part of the optics' 5.17 mm exit pupil. But at night, when my pupils dilate to at least the size of the exit pupil, I am seeing all of what the optics deliver, including their defects. The defect doesn't really bother me; I just wish the, uh, stellar performance was better. Thanks for your encouragment.

Howard
 
Howard, what I know about astro applications could be placed in a small thimble and leave room for my finger. My impression is that a good 804 specimen has a fair amount of SA, which might limit it's off-axis imaging. However, I was thinking of your initial statement "... but star images are not good. I can't get a good focus even in the center of the field." That one got me thinking that an inspection/repair would be in order.

It would be interesting to hear what other 804 users say about star gazing. No point building up unrealistic expectations. I know Arthur Pinewood has a pair.

Blue skies,
Ed
 
Ed, my cheap Nikon Sportstar 8x25 roofs "throw up" better stellar images than these 804R's but the Sportstar daytime images just aren't very clear.

Whatever that means, I have no idea... ;-) Actually, what I was getting at earlier is that I believe the SA/astigmatism/whatever issue is optically related and is therefore not something that can be repaired or adjusted.
 
Last edited:
Howard,

I'd suggest that you read through these CN threads and look for others. Basically, the 804 Audubon is highly respected for astro applications, and it has a great tripod mounting point built in.

If it were mine I'd at least get Nicolas' opinion. Any number of things could have happened to it in 20 yrs. Round trip mailing cost is only about 20 bucks.

Clear skies,
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthre...e=y&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post387187
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthre...=w&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post1547970
 
Last edited:
Audubon serial numbers, Swift models & prices:

re:post #125... Shouldn't that be '00....' rather than '20....' for the year 2000 (dhowes)?

For reference purposes, I have a May 1995 "Amateur Photographer" supplement 'Buying Binoculars' which lists all binoculars then available on the UK market...all 683 of them!
As far as I know, this was the biggest listing of binoculars ever (at least, in the UK). I refer to it often (sad case that I am). Perhaps it would be interesting/informative to list the Swift entries, for the purpose of comparison of values, if anyone is thinking of buying used binoculars 10 - 15 years old? Here they are, giving model, minimum focus, fov, weight, and price (at that time,UK)...
Green Trilyte (roof), 7x42, 4m, 114m, 530g, £189.
Green Trilyte (roof), 8x42, 5m, 114m, 530g, £194.
Green Trilyte (roof), 10x42, 8m, 105m, 625g, £199.
Osprey Blue Spot, 7.5x42, 4m, 122m, 836g, £199.
Saratoga Blue Spot, 8x42, 4m, 140m, 780g, £229.
Ultralite Blue Spot, 7x42, 4m, 122m, 615g, £234.
Ultralite Blue Spot, 8x42, 4m, 115m, 615g, £239.
Newport Blue Spot, 10x42, 5m, 122m, 780g, £239.
Ultralite Blue Spot, 10x42, 4m, 115m, 615g, £244.
Gold Audubon, 8.5x44, 4m, 143m, 820g, £289.
Gold Sea Hawk (if), 7x50, 8m, 131m, 1,134g, £289.
Gold Audubon, 10x50, 5m, 122m, 922g, £309. (Later became Kestrel).
Gold Audubon (roof), 7x35, 4m, 143m, 595g, £329.
Observation, 20x80, 22m, 58m, 2,450g, £425.
Zeiss Jena Octarem, 8x50BGA, 5.1m, 122m, 1,250g, £479 (aka Docter Nobilem).*
*I include this as my favourite binocular ever (it's that good) and to show how similar its minimum focus and fov are to the Audubon 10x50 (Kestrel), but it's 328g heavier!
I hope the above details may prove of some use to those buying old(er) binoculars...
 
Last edited:
James,

Great information!
As you seem to have made only a selection of Swifts sold in the UK, would you be so kind to give me ALL available blue spots please?
(I'm getting very, very greedy, excuse me).

Oh yes, the listing of blue spot Osprey is curious as I have never seen a spot/dot logo on this armoured model.

Renze
 
Last edited:
Hi Renze, I've carefully checked the list again and it appears I have shown all the Blue Spots on AP's list (indeed, all Swifts) so can only conclude these were the ones then available in 1995, "E & O E". However, there are adverts in the back of the supplement which mention a "Swift Triton 10x50 srp £95" (old stock?) and a "Swift 8.5x44 Audubon ED, £475" (new model?). So it seems, 'officially', the Green Trilyte 7x42 at £189 was the least expensive Swift at that time, and the Observation 20x80 was the most expensive at £425, yet the advert for the Audubon ED shows that to be the 'top dog' at £475...
It's also notable that the ED was priced only £4 cheaper than the £479 Zeiss Octarem (Docter Nobilem). The Supplement publication date was 27th May 1995. Hope this helps.
Jim.
 
Hello again, Renze, I've now checked on the reference to the 'Blue Spot' Osprey 7.5x42 and confirm this is how it's listed. I have the Osprey and agree there's no Blue Spot to be found anywhere on it (mine is 1989). The listing name may be a mistake, or the 'Blue Spot' appellation may be included to show this was a 'mid-priced' model, rather than the premium 'Gold' range. Mine says 'Haze-cut Coating' (on left) and 'High Resolution' (right). All this is starting to sound 'anorakish', but I suppose it 'fleshes out' some vagaries of Swift nomenclature for users/ prospective buyers/collectors? Anyway, it's fun! Jim.
 
Hi,
I recently purchased a pair of swift Albany 9x40 445@1000 . Serial No 805900 JB56.
A good glass I think, Any advice gladly heeded
Regards
John
 
Hi John,

This is a rare model, probably issued in the UK only (there's no model number on it, correct?). Some Albany's were designated MK II, all of them had the blue ribbon used in Europe to indicate a quality class just below the gold ribboned Audubons.
Other blue ribbons were the 8x40 Saratoga MK II and the 10x50 Newport MK II, which were redesigned in 1985 and became the Swift SPWA 8x42 and SPWA 10x42. There was also a SPWA 9x42 issued, which contrary to the other two never got a model name, but righteously should have been named Albany I think.
I once bought an Albany off eBay but its condition was so bad I was completely unable to have a decent look through it. However, its successor, the SPWA 9x42 is a truly great glass.

Renze
 
The Type 0 Audubon

A new window into the origins of the 804 Audubon has been opened with the recent acquisition of Swift-Anderson Catalog 59 (i.e., 1959), and, by pure coincidence, an Audubon model shown in the catalog that pre-dates the Type 1 body construction. At this point it's not clear who the Japanese manufacturer was, but it is truly a magnificent instrument with coated optics and 420 ft. field. We will be calling it Type 0 in the revised article.

Cheers, B :)
Ed
 
Last edited:
A new window into the origins of the 804 Audubon has been opened with the recent acquisition of Swift-Anderson Catalog 59 (i.e., 1959), and, by pure coincidence, an Audubon model shown in the catalog that pre-dates the Type 1 body construction. At this point it's not clear who the Japanese manufacturer was, but it is truly a magnificent instrument with coated optics and 420 ft. field. We will be calling it Type 0 in the revised article.

Cheers, B :)
Ed

Ed, thanks for the update. I wish that all bin manufacturers were fortunate enough to have people willing to research their bin history, and make that info available to all. Thanks again. :t:

Best Wishes,
Ron Davidson
 
I wonder whether that that is part of the series which includes my first pair of Saratogas (see post in Swift Historians). Model 801 Serial No 44-702125 which, I guess, makes them 1970?
 
I wonder whether that that is part of the series which includes my first pair of Saratogas (see post in Swift Historians). Model 801 Serial No 44-702125 which, I guess, makes them 1970?

True, 1970. In 1959, the Swift-Anderson. Inc. lineup (advertised simply as "Swift") included the 7x35 Holiday, 7x35 Neptune, 8.5x44 Audubon, and 7x21 Altek (being discontinued) as "premium quality." Other quality American pattern binoculars included the #801 8x40/367' Saratoga. Like all the others in the lineup it had removable (Bakelite) eyecups, which Nicolas tells me alway got lost.

The two 801s you discussed on the other thread (with pictures) post-date the one mentioned here, so you have your work cut out as a Saratoga "collector." ;) Apparently, the earliest Saratoga wasn't considered to be at the premium quality level of the Audubons, which were listed "In a Class by itself," but it did earn Mark II status in later years.

Regards,
Ed
 
Last edited:
Oh, my. It turns out there were three or more early Type 0 Audubons. Mine actually predates the one shown with removable eyecups in the 1959 Swift-Anderson catalog — and may be a low-production early prototype. It's unclear whether any of these had "Model 804" on the cover plates, although the catalog does refer to at least one of them as model 804. Nicolas Crista tells me that the prisms were "staked," unlike later models which used a prism shelf, and also had a single unit cover with integral eyepiece sleeve. (I'm sure you all wanted to know this.) The manufacturer is still unknown.

Here are two pictures of my Type 0-a before they were sent to Nicolas. Yes, the green lettering is original, and even in this condition the view is outstanding. I removed the clothes line someone used for a strap. |;|

Ed
 

Attachments

  • Type 0-a (1).jpg
    Type 0-a (1).jpg
    23.3 KB · Views: 472
  • Type 0-a (2).jpg
    Type 0-a (2).jpg
    27.5 KB · Views: 731
Old and Older 504 Audubons

It may be that my early Audubons shown above were made in 1951. Nicolas will be sending me a restored pair that probably were made in 1955, with bayonet mount removable eyecups. I had no idea they dated back that far, but the evidence seems to be compelling. Nicolas refers to them as "old, older, and even older." Swift-Anderson marketed "Audubons" as catalog number 504, but they weren't actually marked "Model 504" on the prism plates until Swift Instruments, Inc. was formed in 1960. The old Audubons also didn't have a Japanese makers' mark, because makers' marks didn't appear until the early 1960s.

Ed
 
Last edited:
I received the rebuilt vintage Audubon from Nicolas. He was forced to remove the coatings from the left objective due to the cement turning opaque with age. Nonetheless, I can't perceive any difference looking through the coated vs uncoated sides, — which may be because the eyepieces are still coated and have the largest number of air-glass surfaces.

Comparing the 1959 Swift-Anderson and 1961 Swift Instrument catalogs, it is indisputable that the Type-0 design was carried over from one organization to the other. There was an upgrade in coatings from C to FC, and the eyecups evolved through several stages, which needs to be clarified by further research. Otherwise, the internal construction of Type-0s remained unchanged, according to Nicolas. Since the serial numbers proved to be uninformative with regard to manufacturing date, I can only conclude that the model I own with green markings and fixed eyecups (shown a few posts above) was the very first model Audubon, and made some time prior to 1959. The one Nicolas provided has removable bayonet-mount eyecups, and must have been made after 1960.

Although not stenciled on either cover plate, 804 is the "catalog number" of the Type-0 Audubon shown in the 1959 Swift-Anderson catalog, versus the "model number" in the 1961 and subsequent Swift Instruments catalogs.

According to Nicolas, who was trained in Germany and quite familiar with Zeiss and Leica products, the Type-0 Audubon was a Cadillac of it's day using the finest materials and few short-cuts in construction or assembly. The cover plate, for example, is made of hard extruded aluminum, with an integral ocular tube, and secured to the body with no less than four fine-threaded screws and a cork underlayment. The net result was a rock solid eyepiece assembly with virtually no wiggle to the bridge. These precision instruments did require skilled workers to assemble, however, and were no doubt more expensive to produce than later models.

A thing of beauty is a joy forever. :t:

Ed
 
Last edited:
I asked the dealer a question about the eyecups, which apparently do come off. My guess is that both eyecups have a friction fit, but the dealer is confusing the diopter control on the right side. If anyone buys this early specimen I would greatly appreciate establishing communication so we can discuss the details. This may be a second variant of the green model, or my specimen my be missing its eyecups (which I've half way suspected.)

Ed
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top