Nutcracker
Stop Brexit!
Until someone from Guatemala or Honduras complains . . . 8-P
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AOU 2017 Checklist proposals (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Mysticete
- Start date
Kirk Roth
Rarely to be taken seriously
There is no perfect name for the americana daughter.
- Northern - except for familiaris*
- Brown - also less ideal in a global context, (or any other - some are practically grayish)
- Nearctic - except for up to half the range of albescens... and also somewhat aesthetically distasteful, though I'll concede that not everyone cares.
Then top this off with the fact that these populations are not immune from future splits themselves, all of which makes me feel fine with accepting a less than ideal name which may change to another someday.
*although technically, americana is still northern, in the same way that Canada is a northern country. The simplest solution is to rename Certhia familiaris the "Northernmost Treecreeper."
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Nutcracker
Stop Brexit!
Yep, agree.
But knowing AOU, we'll end up with Northern Brown-Creeper and Southern Brown-Creeper :eek!: :C
Nutcracker
Stop Brexit!
One other solution, though it probably won't be popular, is to name them all 'Creeper'; then:
Tree Creeper - C. familiaris
Short-toed Creeper - C. brachydactyla
Brown Creeper - C. americana
Mexican Creeper - C. albescens
And so on
The big advantage is that it does away with the need for a 'Eurasian' or whatever for C. familiaris.
(Tichodroma muraria would remain Wallcreeper, to keep it distinct)
A most elegant solution which certainly works for me. . .. I hate unnecessary changes in common names!
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Not really of the rest of the world having to adjust to something happening over in the US, although we're kind of used to it by now 😉. Changing to Creeper has one advantage though as to distinguish Certhiidae from Climacteridae.
However, how North American-centric it may be, I have another solution: American Treecreeper. For one, it's in there in the species name already. There are also a bunch of other examples of "American" species that are strictly North American and share genera with neotropical species: coot, avocet, oystercatcher, crow, etc.
Retaining the name "Bell's Vireo" for part of what is currently known as Bell's Vireo violates the rule laid out in the 7th edition of the checklist that when a split occurs, new names will be giving to the two daughter species (with rare exceptions). This rule is there for a reason, but seems to be ignored more often than not, presumably in the interest of nomenclatural stability. But there is nothing stable about Bell's Vireo no longer meaning what it used to mean. Pity the poor eBird reviewer dealing with constant reports of Bell's Vireo in Southern California or Arizona having to determine which species the observer saw. Did the reporter know about this split, or did they really mean a vagrant Eastern Bells? A unique name for the Eastern bird solves this problem and leaves the name "Bell's Vireo" available for the combined species.
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Mysticete
Well-known member
The problem here is that retaining Brown Creeper for one of the splits is likely to lead to confusion, since both forms occur within the USA (and I wouldn't be surprised if in winter the northern form didn't sometimes show up within the range of the southern form.
So a birder in Madera canyon reporting a Brown Creeper...Are they reporting a vagrant Bird? or are they just unaware of the split.
So I think this (and Bell's Vireo, which probably has an even bigger risk of confusion) are definite cases where the existing common name should not be retained.
Peter Kovalik
Well-known member
IOC Updates Diary Apr 2 Post NACC species proposals on Updates/PS
Kirk Roth
Rarely to be taken seriously
Its odd that some of the more notable actions are not included: the creeper split, the crossbill split, the redpoll lump...
If memory serves me correctly, all they did with this update was add the Nashville Warbler split and the Thayer's/Iceland lump - everything else was already under consideration.
birdboybowley
Well-known member.....apparently so ;)
It's always been American Treecreeper on my list anyway. It always seemed a no-brainer....
awiner
Well-known member
The creeper split's there - they propose "Mesoamerican Creeper" for the name of the southern form.
Kirk Roth
Rarely to be taken seriously
And now the Redpoll and Crossbill are up, among others (Northern Shrike, Grayson's Thrush). I guess I'm just impatient!
How has Winter Wren been working out in this regard?
It has been an unmitigated disaster. A very real headache in California where "Winter Wren" is now a committee review species.
mb1848
Well-known member
Creeper. I believe that Alexander Wilson is wrong. As is Kirk Roth, and Joseph Manthey , Garth Spellman, and Kevin Burns. The Pine Creeper is a warbler.
http://www.museum.lsu.edu/~Remsen/SACCprop454.htm .
http://bugsandbeasts.com/CatesbyNaturalHistory/?page=I_61 .
2017-C-2, states:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Audubon-Amsterdam-Double-Folio-Brown-Creeper-415-/381690665043 .
George Edwards painted a pine creeper (received from Bartram)which was the blue winged warbler.
http://fineantiqueprints.com/Birds/EdwardsGeorge/3574 .
Actually Bartram 1790 nor Barton 1799 describe Brown Creeper but in 1804 William Bartram publishes a Latin and English description of a Certhia in an article with the summary title Description of an American Creeper. The probable source of Bonaparte's name. The editor of the journal adds some notes. The Editor is Barton.
Page 103 of :
https://books.google.com/books?id=z...al+and+Physical+Journal&source=gbs_navlinks_s . There is a picture but I cannot find it.
http://www.museum.lsu.edu/~Remsen/SACCprop454.htm .
http://bugsandbeasts.com/CatesbyNaturalHistory/?page=I_61 .
2017-C-2, states:
Both references in Barton to Certhia pinus and Pine Creeper are to Pine Warbler using Catesby's name. (The first to write about Brown Creeper is Bartram although he does not say much. Bartram called the bird Certhia rufa the Little Brown Variegated Creeper in his Travels (1790).) Bartram named the pine creeper Certhia pinus. Bartram is supposedly not binomial but I have seen Regulus Bartram in Barton 1799. Barton names a bird House Wren Certhia familiaris mihi. " one of the most useful birds with which I am acquainted, is the House-Wren, or Certhia familiaris? This little bird seems peculiarly fond of the society of man, and it must be confessed, that it is often protected by his interested care." " Certhia familiaris (mihi.) House-Wren, Sociable Wren" "Certhia familiaris (mihi). I now suspect, that this is no other than the Certhia familiaris of Linnaeus, the European Creeper of Pennant..." Next "Bonaparte (1836), in his formal comparison of New World and Old World birds, afforded the Brown Creeper species status, giving it the name Certhia americana. Bonaparte does say Certhia Americana Nob. and refers to Audubon's picture 415 although he cites 419.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Audubon-Amsterdam-Double-Folio-Brown-Creeper-415-/381690665043 .
George Edwards painted a pine creeper (received from Bartram)which was the blue winged warbler.
http://fineantiqueprints.com/Birds/EdwardsGeorge/3574 .
Actually Bartram 1790 nor Barton 1799 describe Brown Creeper but in 1804 William Bartram publishes a Latin and English description of a Certhia in an article with the summary title Description of an American Creeper. The probable source of Bonaparte's name. The editor of the journal adds some notes. The Editor is Barton.
Page 103 of :
https://books.google.com/books?id=z...al+and+Physical+Journal&source=gbs_navlinks_s . There is a picture but I cannot find it.
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l_raty
laurent raty
Another scan, with the plate (scroll two pages up; painted by Miss Anne Bartram): https://books.google.com/books?id=vk9JAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA103
Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
