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Gulls Gulls Gulls Stranraer (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter eagle33
- Start date
lou salomon
the birdonist
yes, craig, all herring, and yes all 2cy including the white headed one.
Mole1
Well-known member
Hi Lou
I have been following these immature gull threads with interest recently as trying to get to grips with immature Caspian and YLG. Could you just explain the reasons why the white headed gulls are not 2CY YLG? One feature I was looking at is the tertials, which have little streaking - is this a variable feature on HG?
Thanks
Mole
Binocularface
You've all got one...............!
I am not sure these additional images of the dark 2nd cy gull will add anything else, but here they are anyway!
This was an interesting bird, just a shame it was so distant and was not seen in flight. Although all observers felt it was most likely a Lesser Black-backed Gull, we were quite cautious. LBBG is a very scarce bird in this area during winter, so our experience of 1cy and 2nd cy birds at this time of year is very limited. Based on the views we were not overly confident we could eliminate similar species from the equation.
This was an interesting bird, just a shame it was so distant and was not seen in flight. Although all observers felt it was most likely a Lesser Black-backed Gull, we were quite cautious. LBBG is a very scarce bird in this area during winter, so our experience of 1cy and 2nd cy birds at this time of year is very limited. Based on the views we were not overly confident we could eliminate similar species from the equation.
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SteveClifton
Well-known member
Not commenting on the ID, but LBBG's are now beginning to move north . I was at Leighton Moss, and Jenny Brown's Point last weekend, and there were several adults around, so don't let that put you off.
This does look pretty good for one, but don't ask me to qualify that comment with reasons!
Steve
JANJ
Well-known member
Hi Craig.
Just as I was going to make a note on the first paler headed Herring - comes Mole and ask why it isn´a 2cy YLG?
I agree with Lou that all are Herrings, also the final one.
Looking at the paler headed individual and comparing it with it´s companion Herring, it´s interesting to note the rather marked difference between the two. The pale headed is, compared to the other one, rather similar to a YLG, mainly because of the obvious contrast between upperparts wing coverts, which are all juvenile (usually a few to many second generation coverts in YLG, rare exceptions occur at this time of year in YLG) - which the other Herring lacks. Although taken muck earlier, this YLG shows the idea:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~daarruud/michahellis1x.html
Further more, the head shape also looks a bit more YLG like and together compared to the more rounded in the other ones. The pattern of the tertials is not an all together reliable feature since wear often makes tertial more uniform, or as in the case of your bird within variation for herring. Also note that the structure is more YLG like, with a higher held breast. However, the bill is more in line with Herring - usually heavier and longer, with a more strongly curved tip, not always the case with some YLG and some small-billed females come close. Compare structure and bill size/shape and winglengt with this YLG from Nov. Also note d the different scapular pattern . more arrow like pattern in you gull. YLG usually has a paler unmarked underparts.
http://www.gull-research.org/ylg1cy2cy/1cynov/micha113.htm
JanJ
Just as I was going to make a note on the first paler headed Herring - comes Mole and ask why it isn´a 2cy YLG?
I agree with Lou that all are Herrings, also the final one.
Looking at the paler headed individual and comparing it with it´s companion Herring, it´s interesting to note the rather marked difference between the two. The pale headed is, compared to the other one, rather similar to a YLG, mainly because of the obvious contrast between upperparts wing coverts, which are all juvenile (usually a few to many second generation coverts in YLG, rare exceptions occur at this time of year in YLG) - which the other Herring lacks. Although taken muck earlier, this YLG shows the idea:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~daarruud/michahellis1x.html
Further more, the head shape also looks a bit more YLG like and together compared to the more rounded in the other ones. The pattern of the tertials is not an all together reliable feature since wear often makes tertial more uniform, or as in the case of your bird within variation for herring. Also note that the structure is more YLG like, with a higher held breast. However, the bill is more in line with Herring - usually heavier and longer, with a more strongly curved tip, not always the case with some YLG and some small-billed females come close. Compare structure and bill size/shape and winglengt with this YLG from Nov. Also note d the different scapular pattern . more arrow like pattern in you gull. YLG usually has a paler unmarked underparts.
http://www.gull-research.org/ylg1cy2cy/1cynov/micha113.htm
JanJ
Binocularface
You've all got one...............!
Hi JanJ,
I must admit I am surprised at this. Although I agree that the first two gulls are Herring Gull I do question the last gull (pics posted by Craig and myself). This bird did stand out against the nearby Herring Gulls and one thing (besides the plumage features) was the rather long pp. This was striking both as the birds was sitting and when stood. I am now fairly convinced that it is a Lesser Black-backed Gull, though am always happy to be corrected
Regards
B
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Brian Stretch
Well-known member
I agree that gull pictured in posts #4 and #6 are of a 2cy Lesser Black-backed Gull.
There are loads of these here in Worcester, c250 pairs nest in the city centre. Although this individual does have a fairly striking neck pattern, beyond that it's typical of the birds encountered here.
Brian
______________________________________
www.worcesterbirding.co.uk
www.westmidlandsbirding.co.uk
www.birdingtoday.co.uk
There are loads of these here in Worcester, c250 pairs nest in the city centre. Although this individual does have a fairly striking neck pattern, beyond that it's typical of the birds encountered here.
Brian
______________________________________
www.worcesterbirding.co.uk
www.westmidlandsbirding.co.uk
www.birdingtoday.co.uk
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JANJ
Well-known member
Looking closer on the gulls in post 4 & 6, seem better for LBBG indeed. Had a quicky last night, which isn´t good at all. However, some Herring (argentatus are quite simillar in dark appearance and equally long-winged:
http://www.gull-research.org/hg/hg2cy/h128060feb.htm
The dark ear coverts and pale head might suggest LBBG over Herring. Also note the resreicted moult in coverts and scapulars.. Greater coverts are hHerring like but shown in many LBBG - variable indeed.
JanJ
http://www.gull-research.org/hg/hg2cy/h128060feb.htm
The dark ear coverts and pale head might suggest LBBG over Herring. Also note the resreicted moult in coverts and scapulars.. Greater coverts are hHerring like but shown in many LBBG - variable indeed.
JanJ
Steve Turner
Well-known member
Tib78
Well-known member
Quote from the page you've linked: "Note also that it has a remarkable high ring-number, so it may be an individual, which has hatched late in the season."
I am not sure I understand the meaning...
It refers to the number on the metal ring, the ringers seemed to use rings with higher numbers later in the season.
