80's- 90's 10x40B early phase coatings? (1 Viewer)

Hi All,
I'm new here to the forum and hopeful that some of you might offer your thoughts and expertise with respect to my trusty old Zeiss Binos. I've searched around the forums here, but haven't found the info I'm seeking.


I purchased a set of new 10x40 BGA T*P* from Cabela's back in the early mid-90's. After some discussion with Zeiss Customer Service in VA regarding what could be termed, "Cold War Nostalgia" (They did not return my original West German marked BGA's after I sent them in for a service assessment), I was offered these as a replacement. At the time, I was assured that this replacement set was of the same caliber. And.. That they were the ONLY 10x40's of this design left in their then current stock, badged as made in "West" Germany. They claimed they were an unused display model that had been in a display case at their North American office, so had never gone out to any dealer. Since the model was no longer to be offered, they had been returned to stock but had never sold. Yes, they were older than what I had sent in, but were still deemed "first quality" in every way.

My question is this...Is there any way to tell if these are actually P coated? The sticker on the box (See the link to the photos I've posted on Photobucket) indicates that they are, but the instrument itself is not marked as such. The serial number on the box's sticker matches that of the instrument, yet I've noticed the receipt bears that of the glass, which was sealed with "Zeiss" tape inside the box when I received them. This transaction took place directly with Zeiss, Virginia as an even exchange. No third parties (ie. Cabela's, ebay, etc.) were involved.

Again, is there any way I can know what coatings are present? Perhaps someone here can reference my serial number to a date of manufacture? Do the other numbers on the box's sticker have any meaning? Are there any tell/tale signs during use that are indicative of P coating? Any help/knowledge would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance and hopefully, as a first timer here, this link to the photos will work ok... : )


http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/t...&page=1&_suid=1385920560705027316223621132096

tw4646,
If P* is printed on the binocular it is from past 1988 and it does have P-coating.
Gijs

Thanks Gijs,

P* is NOT printed on the binoculars, but it IS printed on the box. However, the serial number on the box does indeed match the serial number on the binoculars...

Hence, my confusion...

tw4646 said:

P* is NOT printed on the binoculars, but it IS printed on the box. However, the serial number on the box does indeed match the serial number on the binoculars...

Click to expand...

After the introduction of the P-coating, Zeiss at first didn't use the "P" on the binoculars. They just printed it on the box.

I've got an early P-coated 8x30 that is just like your 10x40. And it *is* indeed P-coated.

Hermann

Hermann said:

After the introduction of the P-coating, Zeiss at first didn't use the "P" on the binoculars. They just printed it on the box.

I've got an early P-coated 8x30 that is just like your 10x40. And it *is* indeed P-coated.

Hermann

Click to expand...

Thanks Hermann,
This is what I was hoping to hear and want to believe.

Along with any thoughts on coatings/dates/etc. Does anyone know if these binoculars are still readily servicable at the Virginia facility? When I look through the right barrel, I see a black speck at about ten o'clock. I'd like to have them disassembled/cleaned/serviced under warranty.

Anyone have any experience with these older models?

The last time I sent mine in for a cleaning, about two years ago, Zeiss determined the focus rails needed replaced, and they were sent to Germany for repairs. At that time, I was told that all repairs on their older binoculars were now being sent to Germany.

Kbrabble,

Were you happy with the service? Issues?

Tw,

I have the exact same model, non-armoured 10x40 BT, but my serial number is much higher, it is seven digits, not six.

I'm just guessing, but if serial numbers didn't change for P models, then this must be even older than my pair [1985] and would not be P coated. I'm also thinking that the older [hard] leather case disappeared before P coating started, with the soft leather case starting in the late 80's. Ask Gary about the date of manufacture via the serial numbers.

Judging by the example below, I seem to be wrong about serial numbers - maybe there are different # for BT vs. BGAT.

This bin has a serial # very close to yours, suggesting that yours is a very early P coated version. It also has the hard leather case.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Zeiss-10X40-...15768?pt=Binocular&hash=item19e5d4dfb8&_uhb=1

Personally, I am a big fan of the non GA 10x40 Classic, so sleek and handsome minus all that bulky rubber.

tw4646 said:

Kbrabble,

Were you happy with the service? Issues?

Click to expand...

Yes, turn around time was longer than it had been in the past (almost 4 weeks), but the service was excellent as always.

kbrabble,

Good to know. I think I'll call Zeiss tomorrow and see if they can arrange for a thorough once over.

James, I agree. Since owning these, I've come to really appreciate the vintage look of the leatherette. The ones you referenced on ebay are actually what got me thinking about all of this (again). I saw them listed earlier this weekend and was motivated to dig out my old box and paperwork. Of course, I really was hoping someone would have a magic solution like, Oh, just look through them at the stroke of noon on a clear day and the words,"yes, your binoculars are P coated will appear" or something. : )

The Cabela's rubber armoured ones that were exchanged for this model had the same focus and diopter wheel markings as on those newer ones in the ebay listing. I suppose mine are of an older style?

Can serial numbers be used to establish dates of manufacture? The lists I've seen links to posted here, don't seem to do this. They only show serial numbers used during a particular production year (often with the same numbers listed for multiple years). It seems one would need to know the year first.

Honestly, I can't even seem to figure out if they are "Dialyts" or "ClassiCs". The box says Dialyt, but all the images I've searched using this term seem to be of an even older vintage.

I appreciate all the help guys. Please, keep it coming. I've actually been curious about these things for a pretty long time now


http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/t...&page=1&_suid=1385920560705027316223621132096

james holdsworth said:

Judging by the example below, I seem to be wrong about serial numbers - maybe there are different # for BT vs. BGAT.

This bin has a serial # very close to yours, suggesting that yours is a very early P coated version. It also has the hard leather case.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Zeiss-10X40-...15768?pt=Binocular&hash=item19e5d4dfb8&_uhb=1

Personally, I am a big fan of the non GA 10x40 Classic, so sleek and handsome minus all that bulky rubber.

Click to expand...

You know, these are very similar in appearance to the Leitz 10 x 40 Trinovid which was made around the same time.

http://kenrockwell.com/leica/trinovid/10x40.htm

Bob

tw4646 said:

kbrabble,

Good to know. I think I'll call Zeiss tomorrow and see if they can arrange for a thorough once over.

James, I agree. Since owning these, I've come to really appreciate the vintage look of the leatherette. The ones you referenced on ebay are actually what got me thinking about all of this (again). I saw them listed earlier this weekend and was motivated to dig out my old box and paperwork. Of course, I really was hoping someone would have a magic solution like, Oh, just look through them at the stroke of noon on a clear day and the words,"yes, your binoculars are P coated will appear" or something. : )

The Cabela's rubber armoured ones that were exchanged for this model had the same focus and diopter wheel markings as on those newer ones in the ebay listing. I suppose mine are of an older style?

Can serial numbers be used to establish dates of manufacture? The lists I've seen links to posted here, don't seem to do this. They only show serial numbers used during a particular production year (often with the same numbers listed for multiple years). It seems one would need to know the year first.

Honestly, I can't even seem to figure out if they are "Dialyts" or "ClassiCs". The box says Dialyt, but all the images I've searched using this term seem to be of an even older vintage.

I appreciate all the help guys. Please, keep it coming. I've actually been curious about these things for a pretty long time now


http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/t...&page=1&_suid=1385920560705027316223621132096

Click to expand...

There is a Zeiss employee here [Gary] that can date most any Zeiss bin. by serial #. I have tried to contact him recently for the same purpose but he doesn't seem active on the forums of late.

There are also [complex] ways of determining phase-coating, or lack thereof. A thread search should turn one up...

James,
Two polarizing filters will do the job to show whether a binocular has phasecoating or not.
Gijs

Gijs,

Can you tell us more? I'm actually a former high school science teacher, and have access to these items through my current school's physics lab. I'd love to take this on and share results...

James,

You can test for phase correction quite easily with an LCD computer screen and a single polarizing filter or lens from polarizing sunglasses.

Hold the binocular in front of the computer screen with the objectives pointing at you. Place the filter between the binocular and your eye and rotate it as you look at the screen through one of the objectives. In a non-phase corrected instrument you'll see the circle visible through the binocular form a clear separation between a blacked out and a clear half of the circle. As you rotate the filter the blacked out and clear halves reverse. Phase coating produces various effects, sometimes different colors in the two halves, but never a completely blacked out half contrasting with a completely clear half.

The first post in the thread below shows some examples of how both phase corrected and uncorrected instruments appear in this test.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=212971

Henry

Henry,

Perfect test for me to try. Thanks SO much for sharing..

So...As I rotate the filter through a full circle, I see two distinct halves to the image. One side is darker than the other. The brighter and dimmer halves "flip-flop" as I rotate, but at no point does one or the other (or both) totally darken. There is a brief window within this arc of rotation where the the two halves appear exactly the same.

As I understand your description and photos, this would indicate that these binoculars, although not marked as such, do in fact have phase correction coated prisms. Thoughts?

I'm a little concerned that the image is not FULLY darkened at some point, like the lower right photo in your post. Instead all positions seem to be variations of the photo on ther upper right.

I wish I had the equipment to photograph my results, but sadly I wouldn't have a clue as to how to go about doing this. Oh well.

Anyone out there willing to try a similar test with known P coatings on one of these older models? Post your results. I'd be curious to know if your observations are similar...

Thanks again all. GREAT forum..

Hi TW, Welcome to Birdforum. I will add my pictures of phase corrected and non phase corrected.

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=2325788&postcount=19

Thanks Steve,

Am I correct in that the Sworavski image we are seeing here has a line of distinction across the diameter of the image from about the 4 o'clock position to the 11 o'clock position, with subtle color/brightness differences between the two halves? If so, I would say I am looking at almost exactly the same effect with my Zeiss 10x40's..

I must say, I'm beginning to actually believe these are P coated. I really thought, going into this, that would not be the case..