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Newbie suffering paralysis by analysis. (3 Viewers)

H

HJC1972

New member
Nikon Aculon 8x42 vs Olympus DPSI 8x40 vs Olympus DPSI 8-16x40 zoom.

Strong first post I know,but I was hoping for a little help choosing between the above.

First off though, a quick intro: I'm a keen angler and river walker based in Bedfordshire. I've had some cheap and nasty bins for a while now but would like to step up a little to something at least half decent for walking the river and a bit of nature observation. I'm on a limited budget, as you can probably tell and I've narrowed my search down to the three listed above by just reading online reviews of the likes of Amazon. I should state that I'm under no illusions and fully ralise that I'm still in cheap and cheerful territory with these bins but they should, hopefully, be far better than the crappy Bressers I've been using for the past few months.

Anyhow, of the above three I was just looking for a more informed decision between the Nikons and the Olympus? I've put in the zoom pair as well as I'm undecided wether to get x8 or x10 and the zoom pair would obviously give me both options. A question I do have regarding these though: assuming I only use the zoom pair on x8, is the image quality likely to be any different from the other two pairs? I do know that the higher magnification results in a loss of quality but he way I'm seeing it, if the 8x is the same as or even only slightly less quality than the other twos fixed magnification then it might be worth getting the zoom pair just to have the option of a (reduced quality) higher magnification, should I want it.


Or at this price point am I just over thinking all this?
 
IIRC the Olympus 8x40 is waterproof, and the Nikon is not. That alone would make the decision for me. Also, the Oly 40mm porous are surprisingly good too. For me, it's an easy decision to go with the 8x40 Olympus.

Never ever ever never never never buy an inexpensive zoom bino......
 
Forget the Zoom binocular. Very few of them, if any, are any good. I know that is a categorical condemnation but it is true and in your price range they are not recommended at all. They all have narrow fields of view throughout their range and they get more narrow as the power increases. If you are lucky when the zoom mechanism breaks down it will keep the binocular working only in the 8x40 range but you will still have a narrow FOV compared to a normal non-zooming 8x42 Porro Prism.

The best advice is to try each of them personally to see how they fit you so try to compare the Nikon and the Olympus together if possible. See how the eye cups fit you. You want to see a nice circle without any blacked out portion. Longer eye relief is generally better but it is an individual thing. Check the focusing wheels for consistency and smoothness when you use them. You don't want them to turn too loosely or too stiffly.

Try using them when the sun is low in the sky and look at objects on or near the horizon a comfortable distance from the sun to see how they handle glare also called "veiling glare." This is the most likely time veiling glare will show up in the view. You will know it when you see it.

Bob
 
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HighNorth said:
What about the Leica duovids?

HN
Click to expand...

They aren't Zoom Binoculars. They are Switch Power binoculars. You get a choice of 8x or 12x and nothing in between and 10x or 15x on the other and nothing in between. And they have narrow FOVs too. And they cost around $2500.00.
 
Thanks for taking the time to answer.

Ok, I've discounted the zoom, despite the reviews on Amazon UK, which suggest that the hundred people or so who have bought them, who seem mostly delighted with them. Now I know there is a pay-off in depth of field, even if they're kept on x8 that has made my mind up to avoid them.

However, to compound my paralysis, I've just come across another maker who seem quite respected who are making a waterproof pair within the same price point. They're roof prism as opposed to Porro. Better, worse, indifferent?

. Incidentally, the olympus one aren't waterproof Phil.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Barr-Stroud...id=1438547793&sr=8-1&keywords=Barr+and+Stroud


Decision decisions
 
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Inexpensive Porro prism binoculars, particularly the two you were considering, are almost always much better optically than water proof Roof prisms in the same price range. That is a given in binoculars costing less than $100.00 and for the most part up to $200.00.

I do have a suggestion for you however. Nikon makes a very good compact 8x25 reverse Porro prism binocular that might interest you at about $130.00 and an inexpensive water proof 8x30 Roof Prism for about $200.00.

http://www.nikonsportoptics.com/Nikon-Products/Binoculars/ProStaff-8x25-ATB.html

And the 8x30 Roof Prisms for about $200.00.

http://www.nikonsportoptics.com/Nikon-Products/Binoculars/PROSTAFF-7S-8x30.html

Bob
 
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ceasar said:
They aren't Zoom Binoculars. They are Switch Power binoculars. You get a choice of 8x or 12x and nothing in between and 10x or 15x on the other and nothing in between. And they have narrow FOVs too. And they cost around $2500.00.
Click to expand...

Okay, I guess you learn something new every day. ;)

HN
 
Hi HJC 1972,
Firstly, zoom binoculars, almost invariably have the narrowest apparent field of view at the lowest magnification, not the other way round.
So at eight times, the Olympus zoom binocular will have a much narrower field of view than a dedicated eight times binocular.
As to the supposed recommendations by numerous people saying that the zoom binoculars are okay. It is because they know no better. Cheap zoom binoculars do not stand up to heavy use. They may have better eye relief in some cases at the higher magnifications.
Also, although they may be collimated at the low magnification, they probably are not collimated at the high magnification. The ones to just chuck into the garbage are the ones magnifying a ridiculous 70 times, 100 times or higher.

The Barr and Stroud 8×42 roof prism binocular may be okay.

Re: optical quality I would say that the Nikon 8×42 may on average be the better choice. However, they do vary. If you are actually able to buy from a shop, buy the one that you test, and which you think is good, and not an apparently identical boxed binocular.

It would be best if you could try the three 8×42 binoculars in a shop, and buy from the shop. But if you buy by mail order it is just the luck of the draw as to whether you get a good one or not.
Having said that, I think that any one of these three should be okay.
 
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Hi HJC

I bought the Olympus DPS I 8x40 for my wife as I was familiar with them and they have good optics. However she found she couldn't get on with them. I think they have Bk7 prisms and these are undersized so you get "hazy", effects when viewing in strong sunlight and bright side light.

Personally I would steer clear and go for the Nikons. Best if you can try them out or be able to return them if you're not happy. I've never noticed problems with the Nikons.

If you don't mind used there are a pair of w/proof RSPB porros on ebay from a camera shop at £69.99 with 14 day money back http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USED-Toug...225?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item33a19a7471.

Narrowish fov but better optics if my memory serves me well than the Nikon or Olympus. Used to retail about £180.
 
The out of production but still available Nikon Action Extreme series of porro binoculars is waterproof and has excellent optics, at a price of about $125 on Amazon. They are offered in 7x35 and 8x40 as well as other configurations. They also have decent field of view and eye relief, but they are a bit heavier.
Amazon UK prices seem to be about the same, but in pounds rather than dollars :( .
 
dipped said:
Hi HJC
...
I bought the Olympus DPS I 8x40 for my wife as I was familiar with them and they have good optics. However she found she couldn't get on with them. I think they have Bk7 prisms and these are undersized so you get "hazy", effects when viewing in strong sunlight and bright side light.
....
Click to expand...

This is the "veiling glare" we hear about.
The glare control in the Nikon Aculons is better with respect to that, although
it makes an odd "bright ring". Still...better than a veil across the view.
 
The more expensive Olympus EXPSI (than the DPSI) 8x42 binoculars are part of their 'Profesional' range (properly coated with decent prisms, but still not waterproof (Amazon is wrong)) and are built to a far higher standard than the DPSIs which are classified as part of their 'Leisure' range, which apart from the odd startling exception (8x25 PCI reverse porro, which is brilliant (the similarly named 8x21 DPCI is not in the same class)) are a bit (in my view) dissapointing and not worth considering for our requirements. The EXPSI 8x42 is slightly big for very small hands but may be bought at the current time for around £99 from at least one London stockist, subject to stock availability - optically they are quite good. Do not confuse with the EXWPI range, which are roofs and cost more.

Avoid all zooms in low price hand held binoculars- it can't be stressed too much.

The Nikon Aculon is a bit too new for me, however Nikon produce sensibly designed binoculars that tend to work well. The only reason I am not a fan is that I own an Action EX 10x50 (it cost me £85 brand new in a sale) where the retractable eye-cups are too wide in diameter for my deeply set eyes, however since I rarely need to use them it seems silly to replace them.

The Nikon Aculon is 25 grams lighter than the Olympus EXPSI and is probably a good buy.

The waterproof RSPB porros are excellent build and both the examples I have owned have been good optically. However they both had stiff focussing compared to say the non-waterproof Olympuses. They are quite compact compared to the Olympus and easy to hold and if they are in good condition (and you can live with the slightly tight focussing) wont dissapoint. I still own one, the other proved that accidentally throwing them on to a marble floor is a bad thing to do.
 
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HJC1972 said:
Nikon Aculon 8x42 vs Olympus DPSI 8x40 vs Olympus DPSI 8-16x40 zoom.

Strong first post I know,but I was hoping for a little help choosing between the above.

First off though, a quick intro: I'm a keen angler and river walker based in Bedfordshire. I've had some cheap and nasty bins for a while now but would like to step up a little to something at least half decent for walking the river and a bit of nature observation. I'm on a limited budget, as you can probably tell and I've narrowed my search down to the three listed above by just reading online reviews of the likes of Amazon. I should state that I'm under no illusions and fully ralise that I'm still in cheap and cheerful territory with these bins but they should, hopefully, be far better than the crappy Bressers I've been using for the past few months.

Anyhow, of the above three I was just looking for a more informed decision between the Nikons and the Olympus? I've put in the zoom pair as well as I'm undecided wether to get x8 or x10 and the zoom pair would obviously give me both options. A question I do have regarding these though: assuming I only use the zoom pair on x8, is the image quality likely to be any different from the other two pairs? I do know that the higher magnification results in a loss of quality but he way I'm seeing it, if the 8x is the same as or even only slightly less quality than the other twos fixed magnification then it might be worth getting the zoom pair just to have the option of a (reduced quality) higher magnification, should I want it.


Or at this price point am I just over thinking all this?
Click to expand...

I would find the manufacturers websites as a starting point on the spec - often quoted specs on sales sites are not that accurate. It ultimately comes down to which model you are most comfortable with when you try them. There are many good optics sellers who will let you take time to see which suit you best, you might pay a few more pounds than through a large scale retailer such as Amazon, but you get a lot more out of the experience and it is surprising how different makers and models can be when handled :)
 
Both Opticron & Hawke are very popular brands in UK and easier to accees. Go the BF sub-forum and have a look which bins interest you most. They produce some very good value for money bins.
 
What about the little Yosemite 6x30? They might have a different name in the UK. They've got a cult following on here....ive looked through them and they're great!
Probably under a hundred squid over there.
 
HighNorth said:
Okay, I guess you learn something new every day. ;)

HN
Click to expand...

From what an owner wrote in a review, you could use the Duovid like a zoom if you could get both barrels to move perfectly together since it focuses through the entire magnification range, but only has stops for both barrels at 8x and 12x.

Lke zooms, you get a smaller FOV/AFOV at lower magnification than at higher magnification: 6.7* @ 8 = 53.6* AFOV; 5.1* @ 12x = 61.2* AFOV. Still better @ 8x than most zooms.

At 37 ounces, you're paying for that extra glass. I would think these would be better suited for hunters than birders. And they are WAY out of HJC's price range although they cost no more than the current single power top offerings by the alphas, so if you can find a mint sample, you get two- two - two mint bins in one, like Certs. ;)

<B>
 
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brocknroller said:
From what an owner wrote in a review, you could use the Duovid like a zoom if you could get both barrels to move perfectly together since it focuses through the entire magnification range, but only has stops for both barrels at 8x and 12x.

Lke zooms, you get a smaller FOV/AFOV at lower magnification than at higher magnification: 6.7* @ 8 = 53.6* AFOV; 5.1* @ 12x = 61.2* AFOV. Still better @ 8x than most zooms.

At 37 ounces, you're paying for that extra glass. I would think these would be better suited for hunters than birders. And they are WAY out of HJC's price range although they cost no more than the current single power top offerings by the alphas, so if you can find a mint sample, you get two- two - two mint bins in one, like Certs. ;)

<B>
Click to expand...

True in both the practical details and the impractical details.

One still sees a wider FOV at 8x than one sees at 12x and that is what using a zoom binocular or switch power binocular is all about.

Why confuse newbies with technical details about "apparent FOV?"

The instruction chart that comes with the binoculars tells the user how wide the FOV is at the low power end of the zoom and how wide it is at the high power end and it is explained in feet @ 1000 yards or meters @1000 meters. The assumption being that the user can visualize this difference.

Bob
 
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