Cheaper than Swarovski and Leica? (1 Viewer)

evandaalen · Jul 8, 2003

This is my first message to this forum, so let me please introduce myself. My name is Edvar van Daalen and I'm from The Netherlands. Since one year, I have a Nikon Coolpix 995, which I REALLY like. My biggest hobby is Ferrari, and with my Nikon I managed to take some very nice pictures. In case you're interested in this, please check http://www.red-headed.com or go to http://community.webshots.com/user/evandaalen.

Anyway, I recently went to the Oostvaardersplassen, a great place to spot special birds. Of course, my Nikon (even with 2x converter) wasn't good enough to take some nice pictures. I now decided that I want to do more with nature, birding and photography and when I read about digiscoping, I almost was in heaven. This technique looks so interesting that I certainly want to do this!

As I'm not a experienced birdspotter (yet), I don't have a scope. So, I'm looking for a scope with a zoom (20-60 or so) which is VERY GOOD to take pictures with. I've visited most websites about this topic (incl. this nice forum) and found out that the Swarovski, Leica and Zeiss are the best. The problem is, that those scope are quite expensive. I've also seen some nice cheaper scopes, for example from Kowa. My question: are the cheaper scopes good enough to take nice pictures or not?

I don't want a scope which results in unsharp pictures, bad colour, long exposure times or "purple" borders. If you rate pics with a Swarovski as "9 out of 10", I certainly want to have "8 out of 10". I don't want to have less.

So, are scopes with a price between $500 and $1000 (incl. zoom) good enough to take good pictures? Or should I be smart to just go for the Swarovski or Leica? What about (for example) the KOWA series (non-Fluorite/ED)?

Opinions about those "cheaper" scopes would be appreciated a lot!

Best regards, Edvar van Daalen

Nick-on · Jul 8, 2003

Have a look at the Nikon ED-78 which is on offer at less than £500 (body only) which is about half it's old price, mainly due to the launch of the new 82mm model. It's pretty good although not waterproof and is half the price of similar Leica/Swaro's (I might even buy one myself to replace my Fieldscope).
Just a thought.

evandaalen · Jul 8, 2003

Thanks for the quick reply! I will certainly take a look at it, although I first have to check its availibility and price here in The Netherlands ....

chris murphy · Jul 8, 2003

Hi all
Whilst on the subject of equipment I wonder if I can pick peoples brains. I too am looking to get a new scope this weekend to replace my old Kowa. I favour getting a Leica Televid 77 (not APO) and was hoping to get the views of anyone who owns one as to whether they are a good buy. I want to compare with the Optolyth TBS 80 beforehand and also check against some others. I'm looking to spend about £500 (plus an expected £150 trade in for my scope). Does anybody have any recommendations for this price range?
Thanks in advance
Chris

evandaalen · Jul 8, 2003

Chris, I was just wondering: can you perhaps tell a little bit about your Kowa (type?) and how good it is for digiscoping? Just curious ...

chris murphy · Jul 8, 2003

I am currently using a Kowa TSN2 (angled). It is a good scope but I finally have the money to get an upgrade. I'm afraid that I do not have a camera (digital or otherwise) and so am completely in the dark as regards digiscoping. Sorry I can't be more helpful!

Glen Tepke · Jul 8, 2003

I use a Kowa TSN-824 for digiscoping and have been happy with the results, but I haven't used Swaro or Leica so I can't offer a comparison. Kowa offers good value, I think their flourite models (823 and 824) are similar in price to non-HD Swarovskis and non-APO Leicas. I would definitely recommend flourite/HD/ED/APO for digiscoping if you can afford the higher cost; the reduction in chromatic aberration and increase in contrast is more noticeable to the camera than to your eye.

Most of the pics I have posted in the gallery were taken with the Kowa if you want to see some results:

http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=1117

The pics taken with the Kowa are labeled "995/824" in the equipment field. The closeups of Black-crowned Night-Heron and the three juvenile Barn Swallows perched on a branch are probably my sharpest shots and best demonstrate what you can do with the Kowa. Glen

Goshawk · Jul 8, 2003

I would go along with Glen. I have an 823 and am quite happy with the results.

Certainly not as expensive as the others you mentioned and in my opinion are an excellent alternative to them.

cspratt · Jul 8, 2003

I recently acquired a new Kowa 823M with the digital adapter made for the Kowa scopes.

I'm very pleased with the images I've taken with it using my Nikon 4500. I've posted a few in recent days using this setup. Far better than the Raven scope from Eagle Optics.

Chris. Spratt
Victoria, BC.

Colin · Jul 8, 2003

Edvar,
I use a Kowa 824 which has fluorite glass and I have no problems with digiscoping but note that this is not the newer 824M which must also be OK as other posts will testify. Note that the 823 and 823M are the same spec glass but are angled scopes which may be better in supporting the camera. I have always used a straight scope which is why I have the 824 and it preceded the days of me going into the subject of digiscoping but if I changed the scope now I may well go for an angled scope because of the above.

Glen Tepke · Jul 8, 2003

My 824 is also the older version (not the 824M) but I understand the optics are the same, that Kowa changed only the construction of the body when they came out with the M series. Glen

evandaalen · Jul 9, 2003

Thank you all for your opinions! Looking at Glen's and CSpratt's pictures, the Kowa certainly is a scope which is at least "8 out of 10". In the next days, I'll try to find a shop where they have the Kowas. I'm looking forward to it ....

Walther Loff · Jul 20, 2003

Hallo Edvar:
Greetings from an other Dutchman living in Canada, also new with digiscoping.
I am using a Nikon Coolpix5000 with a Bausch & Lomb "ELITE", 80ED lens and a 20 X 60 Zoom or the 30X wide Angle fixed lens.
visit my webpages and see what I have accomplished.
Yes a Ferarie is nice but a volkswagen also gets you from Amsterdam to Paris and back

cheers
Walther
www.walther-loff.com

alan_rymer · Jul 20, 2003

Edvar

Try the Opticron ES80 ED if you can find it in Holland!.
There are several digiscopers using this scope with pictures in the gallery!.

IanF · Jul 20, 2003

I use the Kowa 823 32x along with a Nikon 4500 and I am quite pleased with the results. There are one or two photos in the Gallery using this combo.

I picked mine up off eBay for quite a bit less than the normal shop prices.

I'd certainly recommend it for Digiscoping.

rdspalm · Jul 20, 2003

Can you use a digital camera with a zoom lens which extends and retracts for digiscoping? If so how dou you mount it? I have a Kowa TSN 821 and a Sony DSC S85 digital camera.

Can anyone advise me?

Richard Smith

cspratt · Jul 20, 2003

Hi:

If you have a Kowa you should try and get their digital adapter and the TSE-17HB or the 17HC Long Eye Relief eyepiece (the one made for your 821 scope).

With that and the Sony VAD-S70 accessory (adapter ring I guess), the Kowa 52mm adapter ring for the digital adapter and you might be in business.

According to Kowa your compatiblity with the Sony DSC-S85 is "Good", using the above combination and a Kowa 820 "M" series scope. For non "M" series scopes I would check with Kowa.

Good luck.

Chris. Spratt

evandaalen · Jul 27, 2003

Thanks to all of you for your help! But now I am a bit ashamed :egghead: .....

The reason is that I yesterday bought a Leica Televid APO 77! :t: And the quality is GREAT. Now I need to wait for my adapter and for a shutter release before I will be able to take some pics ... I'm sure the next days will be looooooong

I will let you know about the results ... Best regards, Edvar

eric s · Jul 27, 2003

You shouldn't be ashamed. You got some good discussion going that others will read and learn from. I like the dual wheel focusing system on the Televid... its a nice scope.

There were comments about coated and non-coated glass in scopes. I tried an ATS-80 HD and ATS-80 (no HD) side by side and tested them outside at a stores a few days back. The non-HD clearly had problems. I pointed them both at the same backlit leaves about 200-300 feet away and up a tree. Not direct sun, just bright sky behind them. The HD could make them out well. The non-HD had mostly purple leaves. The difference was so clear it was shocking.

I got the HD version and the 20-60x eye pieces for a bit under 2K.

Eric

Tannin · Jul 27, 2003

Indeed, as Eric says, it's made for an interesting thread, and from all I hear you will be very happy with the Leica. More than you wanted to spend, no doubt, but you will have forgotten about the financial pain in a few months, while the scope will give you a great deal of pleasure for many years.

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