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Old Saturday 12th August 2017, 22:41   #26
Jos Stratford
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In another thread I said I did not discuss things with people who don't use their own name. I still think that people who try to discuss subjects under an alias are cowards.
Many good reasons why persons might want to use an alias. What difference does it make though? Do you learn something about a poster through the name?

Is my name an alias, is it my real name? Do you gain any better understanding knowing this?
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Old Saturday 12th August 2017, 22:45   #27
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I still think that people who try to discuss subjects under an alias are cowards.
In the current thread alone, that adds up to at least 5 "cowards" (me, Nutcracker, birdmeister, dantheman, McMadd), and over BF as a whole, tens of thousands more, an attitude on your part that I find the opposite of easy-going.

I was joking before but now I think it must be the alcohol speaking
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Old Saturday 12th August 2017, 22:56   #28
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Many good reasons why persons might want to use an alias.
Indeed, including just a spirit of playfulness. . ..
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Old Saturday 12th August 2017, 23:13   #29
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In the current thread alone, that adds up to at least 5 "cowards" (me, Nutcracker, birdmeister, dantheman, McMadd), and over BF as a whole, tens of thousands more, an attitude on your part that I find the opposite of easy-going.

I was joking before but now I think it must be the alcohol speaking
I think I don't share your sence of humor, but beside that, there are few people who have a very possitive influence on the birdforum, people like Melanie Nayyal, Laurent Raty, Peter Kovalik, Paul Scofield, the late Richard Klim, Calalp (Björn) from Sweden, and many others, maybe even me. We all use our own name, we are not anonymous. Most people with an alias have nothing to say, just critizise the people with an opinion.

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Old Saturday 12th August 2017, 23:22   #30
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"Latin names"...erm...no...can we then, all you pedants, agree to call them "Scientific names"...which is what they are...?
Yes, hurray! Some birds had Latin names, most did not, but all have scientific names.
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Old Saturday 12th August 2017, 23:25   #31
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dear Fugi,
As an aside, he's Fugl (and presumably has Danish ancestry)
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Old Sunday 13th August 2017, 00:18   #32
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As an aside, he's Fugl (and presumably has Danish ancestry)
No "presumably" about it!
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Old Sunday 13th August 2017, 00:36   #33
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I think I don't share your sence of humor, but beside that, there are few people who have a very possitive influence on the birdforum, people like Melanie Nayyal, Laurent Raty, Peter Kovalik, Paul Scofield, the late Richard Klim, Calalp (Björn) from Sweden, and many others, maybe even me. We all use our own name, we are not anonymous. Most people with an alias have nothing to say, just critizise the people with an opinion.
You mean first names count as non-"aliases" in your view but ethnicity markers like "fugl" do not? I bet there are more "Melanies" in the world than Danish-Americans (or just plain Danes for that matter ).

For someone with a scientific background, you sure engage in a lot of special pleading.
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Old Sunday 13th August 2017, 05:54   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Ruhe View Post
...there are few people who have a very possitive influence on the birdforum, people like Melanie Nayyal, Laurent Raty, Peter Kovalik, Paul Scofield, the late Richard Klim, Calalp (Björn) from Sweden, and many others, maybe even me. Most people with an alias have nothing to say, just critizise the people with an opinion.
You started with thread with a rant about persons starting a discussion on bird names, now are declaring that you consider yourself amongst an illustrious few that have any positive influence on Birdforum.

I appreciate that you rarely delve into the wider Birdforum beyond bird paleontology and taxomony, worthy but very limited areas in this community, but it is simply total rubbish to suggest to try and suggest persons with an alias have nothing to say - across BirdForum, there are numerous fantastic persons, some using their true name, some not.

As far as I can see, the only criticism towards you has been due to your apparent intolerance over persons wishing to discuss bird names and then attack on persons wishing to use an alias.
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Old Sunday 13th August 2017, 09:54   #35
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dear Fugi,

In another thread I said I did not discuss things with people who don't use their own name. I still think that people who try to discuss subjects under an alias are cowards.

Fred
Veering away from the topic but I have some agreement with Fred on this. Although this thread is not in any way controversial (so far) or confrontational, the use of alias's does embolden some and makes it easy to be confrontational, strongly opinionated or even insulting whilst remaining anonymous. In the main, I think I'd like to see a move away from anonymity.

Another plus would be that it might prevent me from making a tit of myself if I knew I was arguing an ID with e.g Paul Holt (but it might not )..........moving on.

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Old Sunday 13th August 2017, 10:17   #36
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Veering away from the topic but I have some agreement with Fred on this. Although this thread is not in any way controversial (so far) or confrontational, the use of alias's does embolden some and makes it easy to be confrontational, strongly opinionated or even insulting whilst remaining anonymous. In the main, I think I'd like to see a move away from anonymity.

Another plus would be that it might prevent me from making a tit of myself if I knew I was arguing an ID with e.g Paul Holt (but it might not )..........moving on.
Problem is, you can't know if a supposed real name is genuine or not - it might be a different person impersonating the real person you think you're dealing with. If Joe Bloggs signed up calling themselves 'Paul Holt', how would we know it wasn't Paul Holt? So it's effectively no different to an obvious nom-de-plume.
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Old Sunday 13th August 2017, 10:45   #37
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Personally I don't think you have to be on here long (especially if you're a 'cross-dresser' like me and indulge in photography, butterflies, Odonata, and Gallery) to figure out who's opinions are worthy of careful consideration, alias or not. If I was a 'name' in the birding world I think I'd prefer an alias so I can be sure people are responding to my input dispassionately, and that I'm making my point well.

Back to the topic, I'm for capitalisation of bird names, except after a hyphen (as suggested above), but what about always italicising 'scientific' names? I know it's a pain but it just looks right.....

BUT far more important is to take the care to get the bloody names right in the first place if you're going to post them online. How many Google searches do you make, perhaps to check an ID, or an immature plumage, only to find a good % are completely wrong? The Gallery on here is far from perfect in this regard, and in a disappointing number of cases trying to politely suggest by pm the ID is wrong or should be checked, I have been told impolitely to pi$$ off and stop interfering, in one case by a member with over 100,000 posts. Off topic rant, sorry.....

Mick Temple

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Old Sunday 13th August 2017, 11:13   #38
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Back to the topic, I'm for capitalisation of bird names, except after a hyphen (as suggested above), but what about always italicising 'scientific' names? I know it's a pain but it just looks right.....

Mick Temple
Agree but then we get to the old chestnut 'to hyphenate or not to Hyphenate'..!

Hawk-Eagle, Hawk Eagle, Hawkeagle, think I made up the last one......

I always italicise scientific names if the facility to do so is available.


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Old Sunday 13th August 2017, 11:39   #39
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Birds of the World: Recommended English Names (Gill & Wright, 2006) ... its Wiki-page here:
Quote:
• Official English names of species are capitalized (as was already the practice among ornithologists)
• Patronyms (names of people) are used in the possessive form, e.g., "Ross's Gull"
• Names used do not include diacriticals or inflection marks
• Compromises are made between British and American spellings
• Users are encouraged to spell and use pronunciation marks according to their preference
• Geographical names may be the noun or adjective form, but must be consistent for the location, e.g., Canada (as in "Canada Goose" and "Canada Warbler"), not Canadian, but African (as in "African Piculet" or "African Wood Owl"), not Africa
• Compound words adhere to a set of rules designed to be consistent in their balancing of readability and the relationships of the words
• Hyphens are minimized, but for compound group names, hyphens are used only to connect two names that are themselves bird species or families, e.g., "Eagle-Owl", "Wren-Babbler", or when the combined name would be difficult to read, e.g., "Silky-flycatcher"
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Old Sunday 13th August 2017, 11:57   #40
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Birds of the World: Recommended English Names (Gill & Wright, 2006) ... its Wiki-page here:
Why is the last example not 'Silky Flycatcher', I'm ok with Phainoptila anyway?

Does the recommended guideline have a European / British or American bias/influence if any? Some seem to be veering away from hyphenating e.g Eagle Owl? This example seems odd to me to hyphenate as the name arises from it's size not it's relationship to Eagles unlike e.g Hawk-Eagle which makes a bit more sense.....to me anyway?

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Old Sunday 13th August 2017, 12:20   #41
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Why is the last example not 'Silky Flycatcher', I'm ok with Phainoptila anyway?

Does the recommended guideline have a European / British or American bias/influence if any? Some seem to be veering away from hyphenating e.g Eagle Owl? This example seems odd to me to hyphenate as the name arises from it's size not it's relationship to Eagles unlike e.g Hawk-Eagle which makes a bit more sense.....to me anyway?

A
I think the idea is that Silky-flycatcher isn't a flycatcher, so the use of the hyphen indicates this fact, whereas Eagle Owls are true owls and the use of a hyphen would misleadingly imply a taxonomically distinction from other owls.
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Old Sunday 13th August 2017, 12:27   #42
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whereas Eagle Owls are true owls and the use of a hyphen would misleadingly imply a taxonomically distinction from other owls.
Or a relationship to Eagles, whichever, it appears to me anyway, to be wrong?


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Old Sunday 13th August 2017, 12:56   #43
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Lawks there are some grumpy miseries in the world. I enjoy the variety of handles people pick for themselves on this and other forums I visit. I wish I could have thought of a really good one for myself.... Owen's "Pariah" is a classic, giving you fair warning while also indicating he can take a wryly humorous look at himself. I'm fairly sure McMadd is not actually the character from Blackadder and Cathy is not actually a Peewit (Lapwing (Vanellus vanellus) (note usage of capitals) (also note lack of unnecessary qualifier for Lapwing, being the original English bird to which the name was applied, cf Robin, Nightingale, Reed Warbler etc: it's only subsequently named similar birds that need a qualifier)).

Anybody who feels superior because they use their own name, because they use scientific names (even if they forget to call them that) or because they never make jokes, needs to get out more.

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Old Sunday 13th August 2017, 13:04   #44
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Lawks there are some grumpy miseries in the world. I enjoy the variety of handles people pick for themselves on this and other forums I visit. I wish I could have thought of a really good one for myself.... Owen's "Pariah" is a classic, giving you fair warning while also indicating he can take a wryly humorous look at himself. I'm fairly sure McMadd is not actually the character from Blackadder and Cathy is not actually a Peewit (Lapwing (Vanellus vanellus) (note usage of capitals) (also note lack of unnecessary qualifier for Lapwing, being the original English bird to which the name was applied, cf Robin, Nightingale, Reed Warbler etc: it's only subsequently named similar birds that need a qualifier)).

Anybody who feels superior because they use their own name, because they use scientific names (even if they forget to call them that) or because they never make jokes, needs to get out more.

John
This from the only contender on BF to be grumpier and more volatile than me!!!!!.....

Think we're going through the 'manopause' John


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Old Sunday 13th August 2017, 15:29   #45
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Personally I don't think you have to be on here long (especially if you're a 'cross-dresser' like me and indulge in photography, butterflies, Odonata, and Gallery) to figure out who's opinions are worthy of careful consideration, alias or not. If I was a 'name' in the birding world I think I'd prefer an alias so I can be sure people are responding to my input dispassionately, and that I'm making my point well.

Back to the topic, I'm for capitalisation of bird names, except after a hyphen (as suggested above), but what about always italicising 'scientific' names? I know it's a pain but it just looks right.....

BUT far more important is to take the care to get the bloody names right in the first place if you're going to post them online. How many Google searches do you make, perhaps to check an ID, or an immature plumage, only to find a good % are completely wrong? The Gallery on here is far from perfect in this regard, and in a disappointing number of cases trying to politely suggest by pm the ID is wrong or should be checked, I have been told impolitely to pi$$ off and stop interfering, in one case by a member with over 100,000 posts. Off topic rant, sorry.....

Mick Temple
Mick... the Opus Editors and Moderators work hard to try to make sure that the pictures brought up on the Gallery Search link at the bottom of each species article shows the correct species. If there are any that are incorrect, they can be reported via the Report Images with the Wrong Scientific Name thread in the Opus Discussion area.

I'm sure the number of members who like to be advised will far outweigh those who take umbrage!
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Old Sunday 13th August 2017, 16:20   #46
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... in a disappointing number of cases trying to politely suggest by pm the ID is wrong or should be checked, I have been told impolitely to pi$$ off and stop interfering, in one case by a member with over 100,000 posts.
That's not very nice. Personally, if I posted an image with a wrong ID, I would hope someone did let me know. Please to 'interfere' if you ever see one of my images wrongly labelled
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Old Sunday 13th August 2017, 16:28   #47
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Mick... the Opus Editors and Moderators work hard to try to make sure that the pictures brought up on the Gallery Search link at the bottom of each species article shows the correct species. If there are any that are incorrect, they can be reported via the Report Images with the Wrong Scientific Name thread in the Opus Discussion area.

I'm sure the number of members who like to be advised will far outweigh those who take umbrage!
Delia, I know you do (as we have discussed before), and I do use that thread, but it has always seemed better to approach the poster first as it is not just the scientific name that's wrong. Not doing so seems impolite and a bit like 'telling tales to teacher'.

Also you (and the other mods) should either be more diligent about 'captive birds' (a pinioned Eider duck in Staffordshire can only be a captive), or remove the restriction. In my view all photos of pinioned birds should be excluded as they are by definition 'captive' in some sense.

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Old Sunday 13th August 2017, 16:58   #48
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.

Also you (and the other mods) should either be more diligent about 'captive birds' (a pinioned Eider duck in Staffordshire can only be a captive), or remove the restriction. In my view all photos of pinioned birds should be excluded as they are by definition 'captive' in some sense.

Mick
Not just Opus, the whole site is not policed well in this regard and some get quite sniffy if I mention it even though it's supposed to be one of the posting 'rules'

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Old Sunday 13th August 2017, 16:59   #49
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That's not very nice. Personally, if I posted an image with a wrong ID, I would hope someone did let me know. Please to 'interfere' if you ever see one of my images wrongly labelled
Agree, on the very rare occasion I get something wrong() I'm always grateful to be corrected whether it be a typo, spelling or ID error.



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Old Sunday 13th August 2017, 17:12   #50
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.....Also you (and the other mods) should either be more diligent about 'captive birds' (a pinioned Eider duck in Staffordshire can only be a captive), or remove the restriction. In my view all photos of pinioned birds should be excluded as they are by definition 'captive' in some sense.

Mick
I'm sorry, with the number of images posted and the number of hours that each Moderator can give on a volunteer basis, it is not always possible for us to catch them all - I can't even look at every image uploaded to the Forum and Gallery.

Personally I've not a clue what a 'pinioned' wing looks like! And by the end of the day with tired eyes I might not be able to spot it if I did know!!

If you see a picture that shouldn't be there, either report the post, or there's an option to do so in the Gallery too underneath each image.
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