Madeira Gull and Tern ID. (1 Viewer)

Hello everyone~

We saw these two birds in Funchal, Madeira Island in April of this year. Having some trouble with the IDs, especially the juvenile gulls. All help will be greatly appreciated.

1. Tern, possibly a Common Tern?



The following 3 all look like Herring Gulls in different stages. Just wanted to make sure I am correct with these.

2.


3.


4.


Thanks everyone in advance!

Tern is a Common Tern.

Not too confident on gulls but 4 is Yellow legged (atlantis sub-species) and I would put money on 2 and 3 being so too without looking too closely at this time of day.

Gareth

I agree on the tern

The gulls are Lesser Black-backs surely?

yes, common tern and 3 lesser black backed. madeiran population of YLG has a rel. dark grey mantle but clearly paler than graellsii LBBG (azorean birds darker and very close to LBBG). however, mantle colour is not the best feature since in different lighting conditions it can appear darker or paler. what clinches these (2. = slightly retarded 3cy/2nd summer, 3. = 2cy/1st summer, 4. = 3cy/2nd summer) is the uniform brown pattern in wing coverts - in YLG usually with quite a few 2nd gen. coverts in the 2cy and with a variable amount of grey coverts (esp. median) in the 3cy.

2. and 4. are Yellow-legged Gulls for me.

Here is a similar one from Funchal in also April: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jjbirder/3545092801

Not sure about 3., any other photos?

+1 for LBBG

Agree xith Lou analysis.

Perhaps Lou/Valéry could run through the differences between Drevni's bird at 4 and the link I posted that make the OP's bird a LBBG and mine a YLG? Or is mine a LBBG too? If so, I would love to know why you consider it so.

additional to the mentioned the inner webs of p1-5 are conspicously paler in michahellis, especially in 2nd cycle birds, although slightly less so (and a bit variable) than in nominate YLG.
the two 3cy birds in question have dark inner webs to inner primaries.

Sorry Lou, but I don't understand your post: you compared michahellis with nominate YLG and they are the same thing.

Also, do I understand correctly that you think my link (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jjbirder/3545092801) is a LBB?

And the bird in the OP's picture 4 has a mixture of grey coverts and brown coverts as you say YLG should have.

... this is why I'm not confident on Gulls! ;-)

Cheers,
Gareth

to be more precise: phenotypically the madeiran population (similar to canarian) is somewhat an intergrade between the azorean 'pure' atlantis and nominate michahellis and has been regarded as either taxon in the past, but i admit nowadays it is usually put under michahellis although there's a marked difference to mediterranean birds (as i could recently confirm on the canaries).

no, the bird in your link shows indeed a 2nd summer (3cy) YLG. look at the worn primaries and paler inner webs to inner primaries for instance.

the amount and tone of grey in median coverts in bird 4 is quite typical for graellsii (variation in both sp.!) while in YLG usually the grey parts contrast stronger with the immature brown coverts. but of course there are even michahellis with hardly any grey and a few graellsii with clear grey coverts by april 3cy. in bird 4 however the combination of dark grey mantle, brownish-grey median coverts (and some scattered lesser ones), mostly dark inner primaries, bill with a weak gonys angle, very solid and broad black subterminal band on tail and overall fresh plumage (especially remiges) clearly point towards graellsii.