10X42L IS Pros/cons... (1 Viewer)

Theo98 · Jan 21, 2017

Binastro said:
Ted,
I did think that it was an individual visual phenomenon. Probably only some children and lucky adults have 'perfect' vision, with no spikes or artifacts...Enjoy the Canon 10x42 L.

Binastro,

It does "appear" an anomaly with my vision. It is a little puzzling as I see no similar double focus characteristics in any of my bino investments, and never have before in the multiple units I've had the pleasure to casually glass with. I had my cataract surgeries 2 years ago and the Canon is the only unit I see this in. Peculiar, but since I've not read or heard of this before from any other Canon IS users, the special high-end eye lenses I chose (complete far and near sighted corrections in each eye) apparently impacts the Canon 10x42L usage for me in this weird way. Being this as a fact of life for Me, I will not steer any potential users away from their interest and usage of the optical prowess of the Canon 10x42L IS!

Interestingly, I can verify "sample variations" exist, even in the long standing top-end Cannon IS products. Although the newest unit performed to my eyes in similar fashion as did the first unit (dual focus ranges), there was a slight "nervousness" to the IS image. It clearly displayed small undulations in response to my heartbeat! After using it for about 3 to 4 hours, this never improved. My spouse also confirmed this as she saw the same "twitches" during IS engagement. It may have needed more hours of use to "break-in", but I didn't give it that opportunity, the new one I sent back for a refund.

From the first moment of use, my original 10x42L pair had rock-solid IS function, creating a hand-held sight picture that always appears as if they are mounted on a tri-pod! This is also how my spouse described the stability differences as she compared the two units side by side. With just 6 weeks of usage between these, it was a no-brainier to keep the original 10x42L IS!!

I still state and believe that due to product variances and individual perceptions, when possible, I recommend to Try before you Buy!! :t:

Ted

Binastro · Jan 21, 2017

Hi Ted.
The heartbeat problem is explained in the Peter Sellers and Sophia Loren Goodness Gracious Me 1960 song.

I didn't have an 8x25 IS so I got one in a December sale. Nov 2016 made.
It has oscillations which are a bit nauseous. I don't know if it will improve. The IS works, but the 2014 sample was clearly the best of three I have tried.

The 10x30 Canon Mk 11 is tripod steady and the best I have seen, although the extra weight and inertia of the 18x50 means it can actually better it.

The 10x42 L is now very good if I hold it steady but can move if carelessly held.

I wonder if these binoculars are tuned by Canon technicians, and it is partly up to their skill as to how well they work.
Maybe the 8x25 IS needs balancing of the inner tilting front optics. Maybe they are dissimilar each barrel sometimes.

kabsetz · Jan 21, 2017

Ted,

I was struggling to understand your description of the problem you were having, but after your last post my guess would indeed be that you are seeing an effect that comes primarily from your cataract surgery eye lenses. What exactly happens is hard to know but if your lenses have both far and near-sighted corrections, that could go with the double sharp focus zones you are experiencing in the binocular.

Kimmo

Theo98 · Jan 21, 2017

Binastro said:
The 10x42 L is now very good if I hold it steady but can move if carelessly held...I wonder if these binoculars are tuned by Canon technicians, and it is partly up to their skill as to how well they work.

Good point, BA. The 10x42L IS I kept easily gives tri-pod stability when held steady, totally eliminating any micro movement that I see in non-IS hand-holding with these, or any of my 10X binos. Possibly the pair I returned were hand tuned by an individual who's body pulses or nerve controls differed from mine!?

kabsetz said:
Ted,

I was struggling to understand your description of the problem you were having, but after your last post my guess would indeed be that you are seeing an effect that comes primarily from your cataract surgery eye lenses. What exactly happens is hard to know but if your lenses have both far and near-sighted corrections, that could go with the double sharp focus zones you are experiencing in the binocular.

Kimmo

Kimmo,

Yep...no one else sees it, my wife doesn't see it (in either 10x42L sample) and Canon USA states they haven't heard of it before and couldn't explain why I see it. My previous sight solutions became major issues in seeing the world, thus this little anomaly is a Very acceptable inconvenience. My unique lenses in my eyes are probably the culprit and something I have to, and will "Live With". :king:

Ted

chill6x6 · Feb 3, 2017

So I've used the Canon's for a few days....a LOT yesterday. Hawks seemed to be everywhere yesterday and the IS 10x42 came into it's own while looking at perched hawks! As far as the VIEW goes...it's of course second to none. You can see broad movements of the device but the view is almost as if looking at a video....really a SMOOTH, relaxing view. I have a hard time with distinguishing between some of the accipiters/hawks in my area sometimes....MOST times. The IS really helped. You can literally see the last detail. SUPER in this aspect. I'd like to add that on this overcast day, the Canon seemed REALLY bright.

Today....I started out using an Athlon Ares 8X42 just for fun. The fun didn't last long mainly due to a high-effort, sort of sloppy focus adjustment. Gloves only compounded the problem. So I changed to the SLC 8X42 with a SUPER smooth focus....and the 10X42 L IS to the side. Saying all this to say.....the SLC 8X42 is a SUPERB birding binocular. There honestly aren't many boxes is doesn't check. It carries/handles/functions like a DREAM. Now contrast that to the 10X42 IS. Of course the difference is immediately apparent! The user-friendliness of the SLC kind of magnified the shortcoming of the Canon which IS user-friendliness. The main issue was getting the IPD correct. It never seemed right. I moved it a lot...and of course movement is unconventional which doesn't help. Next was weight... The SLC is about 30 ounces as I use it....Canon right at 40 ounces. I don't know if it was the actual WEIGHT difference or the WAY the Canon is held...but I could REALLY tell the difference.

Don't think the above comments are a death sentence for the 10X42 IS! Not at all. In fact I'm even more curious about it. The view is SO good...almost unbelievable for an in-the-field hand-held binocular. After a good bit of use, the view IS believable, just with some caveats.

kabsetz · Feb 3, 2017

Chuck,

I second your opinion on the IPD adjustment of the Canon, at least to a point. The adjustment itself is easy enough to make, and tends to stay put extremely well, but determining the exact right adjustment is time consuming. This might partly be due to the super-sized eyecups, but perhaps the eyepiece optical design is also such that it really rewards a spot-on setting.

Anyhow, what I have done to facilitate the IPD adjustment procedure is make a template for it. It is a simple plastic strip I cut out, of exactly the length of my optimal IPD which happens to be about 65 mm. I measure from outer edge of one eyecup to the inner edge of the other eyecup, which quite miraculously happens to be the same distance as the distance center to center of the exit pupils.

I recommend making one. It saves you time and hassle and second-guessing, especially if you have lent your Canon to someone else who has messed up your individual IPD. I store my template in the Canon case, under the hard bottom lining which rests against the objective end of the binocular and, at least in my case, comes off easily but not on its own.

Kimmo

Theo98 · Feb 3, 2017

chill6x6 said:
The view is SO good...almost unbelievable for an in-the-field hand-held binocular. After a good bit of use, the view IS believable, just with some caveats.

Chuck,

Seems like a real mixed bag of performances, huh. Their ergonomics are so different from "normal" roofs (with their bulkiness, extra heft, slow focus speed and lack of high-end handling), their acceptance are somewhat taken-back with the overall quirkiness and handling. It has taken me about 10 hours at home and 50 hours field use to get really comfortable with their unique physical qualities, but then I'm use to 40oz 10X50 EL's (w\accessories installed)! Actually for me, I get a steadier FOV with these 10x42L non-IS over any of my other 8X-10X optics...just maybe for not as long a duration of time!

IPD adjustment is really unique, but I found my perfect setting (about 62mm with eye piece lobes lined up with a certain landmark on body) and actually have the eye cups out to just the first notch from all the way in for widest FOV (non glass wearing). Like Kimmo says, once IPD is set they don't ever move!

Yes, they certainly have some caveats, but what I consistently have found though, and the reason I'm keeping these in my excursion bag, is that once I engage the IS function, all of their idiosyncrasies Melt Away as the view (like you put it, "as if looking at a Video"), becomes mesmerizing with clarity, detail and resolution that "I" just can't get with any of my NON-IS binoculars!

They are unique, but if one can develop appreciation of their virtues over the issues, IMHO the 10x42L IS can provide a most rewarding glassing experience. :t:

Ted

p.s.-FWIW, during our 10-day birding excursion in Austria last summer, I had several conversations with Dale Forbes, head of strategic business development at Swarovski Optik and one of our groups professional birding guides. In one particular "talking-shop" discussion, he asked what substantial improvement I thought could be made to their optical binocular line up. Without hesitation, I answered, "Image Stabilization"! In a matter-of-fact way, he stated this is an ongoing development research concept with so far, no immediate future possibilities. Then his face lit up and he mentioned to me the 10x42L IS instrument, speaking positively of the quality of optics and its venerable IS capabilities! He has apparently glassed with these and was impressed with their optics\features\application success. As I had been considering these before, he confirmed what I thought should be my next high-end optic purchase!! :king:

chill6x6 · Feb 4, 2017

kabsetz said:
Chuck,

I second your opinion on the IPD adjustment of the Canon, at least to a point. The adjustment itself is easy enough to make, and tends to stay put extremely well, but determining the exact right adjustment is time consuming. This might partly be due to the super-sized eyecups, but perhaps the eyepiece optical design is also such that it really rewards a spot-on setting.

Anyhow, what I have done to facilitate the IPD adjustment procedure is make a template for it. It is a simple plastic strip I cut out, of exactly the length of my optimal IPD which happens to be about 65 mm. I measure from outer edge of one eyecup to the inner edge of the other eyecup, which quite miraculously happens to be the same distance as the distance center to center of the exit pupils.

I recommend making one. It saves you time and hassle and second-guessing, especially if you have lent your Canon to someone else who has messed up your individual IPD. I store my template in the Canon case, under the hard bottom lining which rests against the objective end of the binocular and, at least in my case, comes off easily but not on its own.

Kimmo

That's really a pretty good idea! I'm gong to try it! Get it perfect and hope, make the template. then store it.

Theo98 said:
Chuck,

Seems like a real mixed bag of performances, huh. Their ergonomics are so different from "normal" roofs (with their bulkiness, extra heft, slow focus speed and lack of high-end handling), their acceptance are somewhat taken-back with the overall quirkiness and handling. It has taken me about 10 hours at home and 50 hours field use to get really comfortable with their unique physical qualities, but then I'm use to 40oz 10X50 EL's (w\accessories installed)! Actually for me, I get a steadier FOV with these 10x42L non-IS over any of my other 8X-10X optics...just maybe for not as long a duration of time!

IPD adjustment is really unique, but I found my perfect setting (about 62mm with eye piece lobes lined up with a certain landmark on body) and actually have the eye cups out to just the first notch from all the way in for widest FOV (non glass wearing). Like Kimmo says, once IPD is set they don't ever move!

Yes, they certainly have some caveats, but what I consistently have found though, and the reason I'm keeping these in my excursion bag, is that once I engage the IS function, all of their idiosyncrasies Melt Away as the view (like you put it, "as if looking at a Video"), becomes mesmerizing with clarity, detail and resolution that "I" just can't get with any of my NON-IS binoculars!

They are unique, but if one can develop appreciation of their virtues over the issues, IMHO the 10x42L IS can provide a most rewarding glassing experience. :t:

Ted

p.s.-FWIW, during our 10-day birding excursion in Austria last summer, I had several conversations with Dale Forbes, head of strategic business development at Swarovski Optik and one of our groups professional birding guides. In one particular "talking-shop" discussion, he asked what substantial improvement I thought could be made to their optical binocular line up. Without hesitation, I answered, "Image Stabilization"! In a matter-of-fact way, he stated this is an ongoing development research concept with so far, no immediate future possibilities. Then his face lit up and he mentioned to me the 10x42L IS instrument, speaking positively of the quality of optics and its venerable IS capabilities! He has apparently glassed with these and was impressed with their optics\features\application success. As I had been considering these before, he confirmed what I thought should be my next high-end optic purchase!! :king:

I'm definitely going to use them more. Actual birding with them is what I need to do to get more aquatinted with them which I intend to DO!

BTW...thanks for the suggestion for me to try these. Certainly something new for me and they certainly DO that they claim to DO! :t:

Theo98 · Feb 4, 2017

chill6x6 said:
I'm definitely going to use them more. Actual birding with them is what I need to do to get more aquatinted with them which I intend to DO!

BTW...thanks for the suggestion for me to try these. Certainly something new for me and they certainly DO that they claim to DO! :t:

You're welcome Chuck. Their slow focus (2.75 turns "CF to Infinity") is challenging while scanning for and chasing birds, but the smaller diameter focus wheel still allows me to make fairly quick adjustments and ID's when needed. Due to My IPD (61 to 62), I see 3D depth relatively equal to any of my Swarovski porros...Nice! However, if you are close to a 70 IPD (objective distance), the porro II prisms probably don't offer much but some stereopsis!

Ted

chill6x6 · Feb 10, 2017

So TODAY, I CONTINUED to use the 10X42 L IS. Image quality is pretty great! Leaning to focus with the left hand button pushing with the right is key! I like it more and more...

Here's one for you Ted!

Theo98 · Feb 10, 2017

chill6x6 said:
So TODAY, I CONTINUED to use the 10X42 L IS. Image quality is pretty great! Leaning to focus with the left hand button pushing with the right is key! I like it more and more...

Here's one for you Ted!

Good deal, Chuck. I use my right index finger for focus and right middle finger for IS activation. Love the 5-minute IS stretch and usually very surprised when it times out...wish it could be adjusted for longer periods of steady use. Spent a couple of hours this morning in direct comparison with my EL 10x50 SV. The 10x42L IS is Really Close in optical quality and although I have become accustomed to RB in the 10x50's (thought it had vanished), while glassing the Canons panning is easier and more natural. However, once that button is touched...the game changes drastically...WOW!

BTW, either you have a lot of layered clothes for outdoors, or you are starting to build up those biceps!! :-O

B

Ted

chill6x6 · Feb 11, 2017

Theo98 said:
BTW, either you have a lot of layered clothes for outdoors, or you are starting to build up those biceps!! :-O B

Ted

Hey...good to know that gym membership is paying off!

Theo98 · Feb 11, 2017

chill6x6 said:
Hey...good to know that gym membership is paying off!

That, and the extra curricular "Cannon Brick" activities! :t:

Ted

Binastro · Feb 16, 2017

Just opened a pack of 4 Eneloop 09 2015 batteries.
It has been mentioned before but it claims up to 70% charge remains after 10 years.

Some Duracells also claim 10 years now.

There was a news note of new low cost batteries with a 10 year life, but I haven't followed this development.

In the past there was enormous waste. Batteries were frequently expired by the time they were needed.

Theo98 · Feb 17, 2017

Theo98 said:
I'm very thrilled with the Low-battery consumption. Initially, I installed 1.8V Energizer 20-yr shelf life Lithiums. I've figured I now have 25-30 hours of IS glassing activity (about 4X that non-IS usage) and have dropped down to just 1.72V...IMO, these batteries are the only way to go!!
Ted

These above mentioned Lithiums Are the way to go. I now have 35+ hours of 10x42L "IS field usage" and my 1st set of these Energizers are holding at 1.75V (haven't used in a few days). They posses outstanding shelf life, extreme cold temp performance and plenty of power to spare with the Canon 10X42 IS. The excuse, "but those binoculars take batteries", isn't valid anymore. If I may say so, to me all of my great optics have "permanent dead batteries", but Not These Optics! :eek!:

Ted

Richken · Mar 20, 2017

Theo98 said:
Good deal, Chuck. I use my right index finger for focus and right middle finger for IS activation. Love the 5-minute IS stretch and usually very surprised when it times out...wish it could be adjusted for longer periods of steady use. Spent a couple of hours this morning in direct comparison with my EL 10x50 SV. The 10x42L IS is Really Close in optical quality and although I have become accustomed to RB in the 10x50's (thought it had vanished), while glassing the Canons panning is easier and more natural. However, once that button is touched...the game changes drastically...WOW!

BTW, either you have a lot of layered clothes for outdoors, or you are starting to build up those biceps!! :-O B

Ted

Ted and Members

I've just joined birdforum after having read all the interesting posts in this discussion. A brief introduction may be in order. I recently moved to the Isle of Wight which is a small island off the south coast of the UK from a wonderful rural spot in Wales in the UK.

I thought that it was time to buy a really good pair of binoculars and decided that the Canon 10x42L IS WP would be my best choice and as I wanted really good optics and IS.

The first pair arrived last week and I was very impressed with the clarity and their solid feel and the IS facility was all that I had hoped for. What took me by surprise however was the amount of chromatic abberation I was seeing when viewing things like the edges of sloping roofs edges of buildings and lamp posts seen against dull skies when just a little off centre.

Perhaps I'm being over picky but with over 50 years as a pro photographer I pick up on such things rather easily, and having paid for quality lenses did not expect to see CA so far out from the edge. For a reality check I called into my local camera shop that also keeps binoculars in the lower price range and I was absolutely horrified at how bad the CA was on most of them!

I returned the Canon binoculars and have been supplied with a replacement pair which are only slightly better than the first ones. The guy at the shop who deals with returns said that the replacement pair is as good as they come. Normally I would have made the three hour trip and expensive ferry crossing to see them before buying, but there was little point as they only stock one pair of these binoculars at any one time. I would be very interested to hear the comments of members.

Cheers Richard

ceasar · Mar 20, 2017

High Richard,:hi:

Welcome to Bird Forum!

I am not being flippant here but I think that from your past experience as pro photographer that you have "trained" your brain to notice CA under conditions where most people would not notice it.

I don't know what the solution is except to get one of the binoculars with the reputation of being the best at controlling it. I can't help you with this because I don't see it when I use my binoculars under normal everyday lighting conditions. I do use high quality binoculars like the Zeiss Victory 7x42 FL which uses Flourite glass.

It will help to have set both your IPD and diopter correctly and to try to keep the object you are viewing on axis.

Bob

Theo98 · Mar 20, 2017

Richken said:
Ted and Members

I've just joined birdforum after having read all the interesting posts in this discussion. A brief introduction may be in order. I recently moved to the Isle of Wight which is a small island off the south coast of the UK from a wonderful rural spot in Wales in the UK.

I thought that it was time to buy a really good pair of binoculars and decided that the Canon 10x42L IS WP would be my best choice and as I wanted really good optics and IS.

The first pair arrived last week and I was very impressed with the clarity and their solid feel and the IS facility was all that I had hoped for. What took me by surprise however was the amount of chromatic abberation I was seeing when viewing things like the edges of sloping roofs edges of buildings and lamp posts seen against dull skies when just a little off centre.

Perhaps I'm being over picky but with over 50 years as a pro photographer I pick up on such things rather easily, and having paid for quality lenses did not expect to see CA so far out from the edge. For a reality check I called into my local camera shop that also keeps binoculars in the lower price range and I was absolutely horrified at how bad the CA was on most of them!

I returned the Canon binoculars and have been supplied with a replacement pair which are only slightly better than the first ones. The guy at the shop who deals with returns said that the replacement pair is as good as they come. Normally I would have made the three hour trip and expensive ferry crossing to see them before buying, but there was little point as they only stock one pair of these binoculars at any one time. I would be very interested to hear the comments of members.

Cheers Richard

Hello Richard & Welcome to BF! :hi:

I was dismayed as I read of your dilemma. Fortunately, either I'm not sensitive to CA or haven't purchased binos whose optics are prone to it. As you may have read in post #101, my corrected eyesight appears to facilitate a visual anomaly whereas I experience two focal points in the 10X42L. Believing my pair was defective, ordered a replacement that proceeded to show to me, the same situation (kept the first). In neither unit did I experience any CA in challenging dynamic views such as you describe. I'd guess you might be seeing "unit variations" (such as Canon has a reputation for), but the fact you experience it in many of their other models probably points to your sensitivity (photo experience + your eyes) to CA. You may also have to have a perfectly set IPD and eye cup extensions to minimize off-center CA. Do you view with glasses? If so, check with your eye doctor as I've read that some corrective lens products exasperate binocular CA.

There are several BF members that are also sensitive to CA (even to some top alpha glass instruments), and have to carefully choose (hopefully through pre-purchase glassing activities) which particular models they invest in. It appears you have some admiration for the top Cannon binocular, but you would have to -look past- this issue to continue to enjoy their well known benefits (IS). I hope you can further work this out with your optics dealer, possibly finding better CA controlled optics if needed (ex: Swaro SLC's, Zeiss HT's, possibly Leica Notivid) to glass with and enjoy.

Thanks for posting and keep us informed of your continued progress!

Ted

Binastro · Mar 20, 2017

Dear Richard,
Welcome.

In addition to the optical normal CA the IS binoculars have moving prisms, which give extra CA.

I used to be immune to CA being used to refractor telescopes.
The normal CA correction for a 3 inch doublet was f/9 but the Conrady standard is f/15.
A 5 inch refractor f/15 or f/25.
The huge refractors have I think about 4 inch focus difference between red and blue.

The only perfect refractor objective I owned was a Ross triplet 100mm f/15.

Horace Dall's camera obscura was 108mm f/30 corrected for 4 colours.

Everyone seems to love the new 8x42 Nikon Monarch HG.
My sample is probably substandard and I hate the CA.

If you go for a telescope you might be better off with a Newtonian or Maksutov.

Note, that our eyes have CA also.
Glasses definitely make things worse for me.

Stanbo · Mar 20, 2017

Richken said:
Ted and Members

I've just joined birdforum after having read all the interesting posts in this discussion. A brief introduction may be in order. I recently moved to the Isle of Wight which is a small island off the south coast of the UK from a wonderful rural spot in Wales in the UK.

I thought that it was time to buy a really good pair of binoculars and decided that the Canon 10x42L IS WP would be my best choice and as I wanted really good optics and IS.

The first pair arrived last week and I was very impressed with the clarity and their solid feel and the IS facility was all that I had hoped for. What took me by surprise however was the amount of chromatic abberation I was seeing when viewing things like the edges of sloping roofs edges of buildings and lamp posts seen against dull skies when just a little off centre.

Perhaps I'm being over picky but with over 50 years as a pro photographer I pick up on such things rather easily, and having paid for quality lenses did not expect to see CA so far out from the edge. For a reality check I called into my local camera shop that also keeps binoculars in the lower price range and I was absolutely horrified at how bad the CA was on most of them!

I returned the Canon binoculars and have been supplied with a replacement pair which are only slightly better than the first ones. The guy at the shop who deals with returns said that the replacement pair is as good as they come. Normally I would have made the three hour trip and expensive ferry crossing to see them before buying, but there was little point as they only stock one pair of these binoculars at any one time. I would be very interested to hear the comments of members.

Cheers Richard

Hi Richard,

I have just got out my Canon 10x42L IS binoculars to look at my usual test for CA which I am prone to see. I looked up at the thin outer branches of birch trees, backlit against a grey sky and there was no CA even to the lens edges. Two back lit jackdaws then appeared which is always a good test and again, no sign of CA. There have been times when I have seen CA through them, but very rarely and then only under very adverse conditions and that doesn't bother me. I have both Nikon EDG and Nikon SE binoculars which are generally considered as CA free and the Canons are as CA free as those.

The other models in the range don't have ED glass and they do show some CA under adverse conditions but not to a degree that it bothers me.

I'm of an age like you (swing the light and I will tell you war stories), and my CA problem stems from the very early days of colour printing which I did by hand using filters for colour balance. By the time I had done numerous test strips, achieving a 10"x8" print would take most of an evening. Unfortunately, I now pick out colour problems very easily and working with optics for much of you working life has also made me rather critical.

Someone has mentioned problems if you are a glasses user, but if that is the case you should be able to see the CA just through them without binoculars. A few years ago I had the latest and greatest new lenses fitted to my glasses, but when I came out of the opticians there was a beautiful bright yellow edge to the ridge tiles on the house opposite. I took them straight back and they fitted the older type of lens and they were fine.

As other people have said, if you are prone to CA then making sure you get the IPD and dioptre settings spot on as it can make a lot of difference.

Looking through lower priced binoculars will always show up CA so it is not a particularly good test for your problem. I suggest as a first step that you should visit some of the local birding spots and talk to someone with high end binoculars and ask them if you can look through theirs and them through your Canons. They will probably be highly delighted as not many people have looked through IS binoculars and it often comes as quite a shock. I'm sure the results this will tell you whether the problem is the binoculars or yourself and you can work from there.

You have a wonderful binocular - stick with it if you can.

Stan

10X42L IS Pros/cons... (1 Viewer)

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