Confused Consumer (1 Viewer)

Hello all,

First, let me start by saying I'm new to a)spotting scopes and b)birding. I'll admit right now that I'm not into birding (at least not yet), but I figured if anyone is going to be an expert at non-astronomical optics, it's going to be birders, so that's what brings me here, to ask the experts.

Having said that, I value forums a lot, but I must say, there are just so many things to know about scopes and so many darn eyepieces for these scopes that I'm now more confused than when I first started looking into these.

I've decided on the PF-65ED because of its primary advantage of weight/size and because of many positive reviews, including that from BVD. That wasn't hard, because I've determined from my research that it's a decent value vs the high-end, which I probably wouldn't even be able to appreciate.

Now that I've started to research the eyepieces, I'm all over the place. Anyway, so I would like to get some opinions in helping to select eyepieces for my situation, which I don't believe I've found in these threads. Most seem to be seeking really inexpensive eyepieces, or high-end, unless I'm interpreting in incorrectly. The following is some information regarding its intended use.

1) Primarily for non-birding wildlife and nature, with a very real possibility of getting into birding. I've been gaining interest in it just from reading about scopes and seeing all the great photos.
2) Will definitely be digiscoping.
3) I wear contacts, so I don't necessarily need the eye relief that most need with glasses, but would like it if possible and doesn't a) cost too much or b) compromise something significantly.
4) I'm not looking for really cheap eyepieces and not high-end eyepieces, just something in the middle that will satisfy viewing and photography.
5) I'm guessing 20-25% low light viewing.
6) I've cut the weight of the scope (down from initial interest in the PF-80ED) in anticipation that I would be able to accept some heavy eyepieces if need be, so I'm also not exactly looking for the lightest eyepieces either.
7) I like the idea of zooms, but from what I've been reading, you compromise a lot, including not being able to digiscope with them - at least from what I've been reading.
8) I will not be viewing in foul weather, but with this going camping and hiking with me a lot, the eyepieces must be waterproof, or at least cheap enough to replace or service.
9) Also, on the question of magification, I would definitely like to take advantage of 60x or close to it. Not for moving or even still wildlife, but most likely static objects in general at long distance, though I'm not so sure I'd like to (or can effectively) digiscope at that power with this type of spotting scope.

I know that's a lot, but I would definitely appreciate some input, as it might save me from making an expensive mistake. I'm not against paying for maybe one high-end eyepiece as part of what I may need, but I would want to try to make sure its specs lend itself to being one of the most useful pieces of the set.

Hi. I'm sure you'll get lots of suggestions here. Can you give us an idea of how much you want to expend on the eyepiece? The pentax XW series (~$300) are excellent for viewing and digiscoping (see my gallery). The orion stratus eyepieces are also pretty good (~$120). Those are the ones I use and like them a lot. Other option is to try a zoom eyepiece and again you will have lots of options from ~$50 to ~200. The pentax smc 20-60 zoom eyepiece is good but in my oppinion too expensive.

Hi galvanni, I had the same interests and came to the bird forum to investigate the expansive knowledge of the birders. I didn't have much interest at first although I've always loved birds of prey.
At the gun range I looked through the Swaro ATS 65 and the Zeiss 77 (non APO), both only at a range of 550 yrds, both were disappointing, knowing their price. I took a chance if you will on the Pentax 80 ED-A because I really enjoy my 8x43 DCF SP binoculars, without viewing through the scope first. I couldn't believe how clear and stunning the view was. In my opinion better than those above. But then again at that distance you do sacrifice some quality, especially in the warm summer.
The SMC Zoom that was included in the package is nice for variable distances, for wildlife viewing I don't see a fixed eyepiece to be any advantage, other than a more superior field of view, for having to get closer to your animal may make it end up moving further away than you're willing to travel.
Jose (poster above), has a rare talent in digiscoping, his pictures are nearly indistinguishable from a telephoto SLR, if at all. Make sure you check out his gallery. It may be because of his digiscoping that clinched the 80mm for me. Although I've been trying to digiscope myself, I've been slow to realize how to get the camera settings right, or it may be just as you've mentioned that the zoom isn't the preferred eyepiece for digiscoping. I've had some mediocre results, none yet to be proud enough to post.
About the weight of the scope, you'll have to take in account the weight of your tripod/head. I tried my wife's (plastic) Vanguard tripod, and.......no way. So I got a Manfrotto, pretty darn solid. Coupled with the scope, roughly 10 pounds. No biggie for me, I pack the tripod in loops on the bottom of my daypack, put the scope inside amongst other needful things, and I'm off through the woods 'till I find a nice place to sit and wait. You won't be saving but a pound or two if you're to get the 65mm, and the length of the scope is only relative to how much more out you wish to view. I'll take the couple pounds and inches for the added advantages. I'm a big boy, I can carry it.
Good luck with your decision and searches. There's a camera shop in NY called Camera Land, Inc. Good prices, talk to Doug.
Adios, CaseyT

1) Primarily for non-birding wildlife and nature, with a very real
possibility of getting into birding. I've been gaining interest in it
just from reading about scopes and seeing all the great photos.

SF: The 65mm is a good choice for a all-around field scope for nature
observation.

2) Will definitely be digiscoping.

SF: NO. 65mm is just too small an objective for nature photography where
often the best shots will be under less than ideal lighting conditions.
I use a 100mm and often it is just not enough for certain conditions.


3) I wear contacts, so I don't necessarily need the eye relief that
most need with glasses, but would like it if possible and doesn't a)
cost too much or b) compromise something significantly.

SF: Long ER eps are pretty cheap now.

4) I'm not looking for really cheap eyepieces and not high-end
eyepieces, just something in the middle that will satisfy viewing and
photography.

SF: Take a look at the Stratus line by Orion. With a 65mm I wouldn't go
much over 30x (13mm) ep. I wouldn't try to kludge together one ep that
would work for both observation and photography. Get a decent ep for
observation and a setup optimal for photography (especially with a 65mm).

5) I'm guessing 20-25% low light viewing.

SF: Consider a 20mm ep for low light with that 65mm.

6) I've cut the weight of the scope (down from initial interest in the
PF-80ED) in anticipation that I would be able to accept some heavy
eyepieces if need be, so I'm also not exactly looking for the lightest
eyepieces either.

SF: Again, look at the Stratus line.

7) I like the idea of zooms, but from what I've been reading, you
compromise a lot, including not being able to digiscope with them - at
least from what I've been reading.

SF: I have found even the best zooms unsuited for nature observation.
Too narrow a field of view and unusable at high powers-dark and muddy.

8) I will not be viewing in foul weather, but with this going camping
and hiking with me a lot, the eyepieces must be waterproof, or at least
cheap enough to replace or service.

SF: Don't worry about it too much. I've used all kinds of cheap eps and
have never had any problems with water. I'd worry more about dust than
water. Get out of the rain or cover the ep with a baggy and a rubber
band. Any decently sealed ep will do.

9) Also, on the question of magnification, I would definitely like to
take advantage of 60x or close to it.

SF: NO. I wouldn't push that 65mm much over 30x and definitely not over
40x. This is not a matter of opinion it's just simple physics. If you
must try high-power eps go to specialized planetary eps like the
TMB/Burgess planetaries. I have TMB's in 9, 7, and 5mm. The 7mm in the
100mm spotter gives me 90x which is at the 100mm objectives limits. At
least for daytime terrestrial observation. The 5mm (124x) gives me
stunning views of the moon but that's about it. The 9mm in the 80mm
gives me 58x and very good images but is also at it's limits.

Just one man's opinion,
SF

I have this Scope. If I were you I'd get a top quality fixed eyepiece for general viewing/digiscoping and a cheaper (but adequete) zoom for general birding or if you need to crank up the power. Switching eyepieces quickly is very easy with this Scope.

Either the Pentax XW14 (mag 28X) or XW20 (19X) and something like the Vixen LV8-24mm zoom (mag 16-48X approx) would be an ideal combination. If I had that cash to spend now I wouldn't hesitate getting 2 of these eyepieces (one of the fixed plus the zoom).

I currently have the Pentax XF12 (mag 32X) and a very similar (but cheaper) zoom to the Vixen. I use the zoom for birding and the fixed eyepiece for Digiscoping. Like other posters have said the 65mm Scope is a bit of a compromise when it comes to digiscoping-the 80mm or 100mm may suit your needs better (they're too heavy for me).

You CAN digiscope with a zoom but usually it's difficult or impossible to alter the magnification without dismounting the Camera adapter.

Hi Glavanni I see this is your first post, so may I extend a warm welcome from all the staff and moderators at Bird Forum.

I see you are already getting some assistance with your questions, so I'll now leave you in the hands of our more knowledgeable members

D

Hi
I also have 65ED straight. I have tried several EPs (VIXEN 6mm, 9mm, Bresser ED7.5mm, Bresser ED9.5mm, Hyperion 8mm, Soligor 12.5mm):
http://www3.shrani.si/o.php?ep976059.jpg

I can say that the picture is not as good as expected at 6mm, so I sold Lanthanum 6mm. I don't suggest you to try 6mm.
The Baader Hyperion 8mm (the European version of the Stratus, but better than Stratus ) is very good wide eps, but very big and heavy, so big that the straight scope can't be covered by stay on case with the mounted hyperion, so I sold the Hyperion too.
With the Vixen Lanthanum 9mm the picture is relative good, but it could be better.
The Soligor 12.5mm (31x) gives the excellent, the best picture, the sharpness (edge to edge) and contrast are significantly better than with the Vixen 9mm. I am VERY happy with the Soligor 12.5 (it is the clone of the vixen 12.5). I think that the view through the any other scope can't be much better. I paid only 60euros on ebay for a new soligor.

I would like to try only one another ep: vixen or soligor 10mm, I hope it will fill the gap between the 12.5 and 9 and will be better than 9mm.
I hope it will become my primary EP.

Wow, thanks everyone, that was fast. I'll have to take some time when I get back from work to read through all of this in more detail.

I take it I was asking too much of the 65ED to be good at digiscoping. That's pretty much the story with everything I buy - can't have it all in one package I guess.

What's the story with all this re-branding in the eyepieces that appears to be going on? Is buying an eyepiece like buying a mattress - hard to tell what you're actually getting?

Should I be concerned at all with getting a threaded EP for digiscoping, like a Williams DCL or should I just select the EP and then worry about how I'm going to shoot through it? The price range of the Stratus is more inline with what I was thinking.

I do intend on purchasing a digital camera specifically for this, as my Canon S50 just went south on me a few months back.

galvanni said:

Should I be concerned at all with getting a threaded EP for digiscoping, like a Williams DCL or should I just select the EP and then worry about how I'm going to shoot through it?

Click to expand...

There are various adapters to connect (non-threaded) cameras to non-threaded eyepieces so I personally wouldn't worry about it.

Ok, did some research on the Orion Stratus EPs. I'm comfortable with that price. So I'm thinking either two Stratus EPs or one and the Vixen 8-24mm Zoom.

Any suggestions on pairing these up. I'm thinking either a set of (13mm and 8mm Orion Stratus) or (the 13mm Orion Stratus and the Vixen Zoom). Does this seem like a good combination. I figure I could take it from there if I experiment with the Orion on the camera.

Even with the various adapters, is there any issue with the Stratus that I should know about for digiscoping?

Other than that, I guess I just need a tripod for it. I was kind of figuring on getting the one mentioned in the BVD article on the 65ED - the Manfrotto 718b ~$100 and about 3lbs. Actually, I could probably do with something not as tall as this, since I'm only 5'8", and I'm interested in the angled version of the 65ED.

Would this be a decent setup?

galvanni said:

or one and the Vixen 8-24mm Zoom.

Click to expand...

I have the Vixen 8-24 Lanthanum ( http://www.adorama.com/VXLAZ.html ) and use it with a Pentax PF-65A. I like it a lot. One reason I bought it is because of the great eyerelief (I wear glasses), which you mention wouldn't be a factor for you. But it also is very sharp and I find that it does NOT get less sharp even at full power zoom, which is pretty fine for a zoom eyepiece.

galvanni said:

Any suggestions on pairing these up. I'm thinking either a set of (13mm and 8mm Orion Stratus) or (the 13mm Orion Stratus and the Vixen Zoom). Does this seem like a good combination. I figure I could take it from there if I experiment with the Orion on the camera.

Click to expand...

I know you are really into getting a high-mag eyepiece, but let me echo Sout Fork in saying that you may be pushing the scope too far, and also underrating how much you can see with a clear 20mm eyepiece (19.5x on the PF-65).

I just recently purchased a PF-65EDa and have two eyepieces so far -- a 20mm wide-angle eyepice from Knight Owl (around $25 from their eBay store) and a nicer Pentax XF 12mm ($150 or so). The Pentax 12mm is comparable to the Stratus 13mm -- in fact, I compared them both in store.

I completely agree that at that magnification (around 30X) you're already pushing the limits of the scope. When conditions are good, the Pentax 12mm gives fantastic views, but with heat shimmer and other atmospheric interference I couldn't imagine going much higher in magnification, unless you really want to spend the bucks on a high-quality eyepiece like a Pentax XW ($300+).

The 20mm cheapo eyepice, on the other hand, gives just fantastic, bright, crisp views. Sure, the image degrades a little bit towards the edge of the FOV, but it's still giving great views.

Magnification is nice, but you can see a lot of stuff at 20X power, and the loss in brightness and resolution from pushing the scope too far more than makes up for the extra magnification. I'm a birder, and there are times when I'll pop in the XF 12mm for a closer view of a far-away shorebird, but when the conditions aren't great I don't even see that much more than my cheapo 20mm.

So, the moral of my story: STRONGLY consider a longer eyepiece, around 20mm or so. Especially because you aren't birdwatching, and don't need to resolve tiny birdies with crisp detail. Again, you'll be amazed how much you can see with a bright 20mm eyepiece. You'd be better off with a 20mm + 13mm than a 13mm + 8mm I would think.

Furthermore, for digiscoping, since you often have to zoom in the camera zoom to 3X or so, combining that with a nice 20mm eyepiece means you get 60X total mag. At 60X, you're already pushing the outer limits of this scope's performance.

Oops, I totally didn't consider the zoom of the camera and yes, I did forget about the post indicating the limitations.