Upton Warren (10 Viewers)

UW82 said:

There fine John, just wondered if it was the Trust or the Tuesday work-party.


Des.

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Mind you Des we had to have permission off Natural England to do it.:eek!:
I think it will make that area even more attractive, hopefully increasing the insect, butterfly and dragonfly populations (especially where the 'ditch' has been opened up by coppicing the willows).:t:John

When I was downstairs in the new Flashes hide yesterday I was joined by an elderly couple who (whilst legitimate Trust Members) confessed to not being particularly experienced birders, but had come down because they had heard (thanks to Rob's super images on the Trust's Facebook pages) that the Avocets were back. They commented on my commentary about "he" and "she" whilst photographing the Avocets and stated that to them they all looked the same.
I meant to include this in last night's post but forgot, so bear with me while I try and explain my sexing system: many birding friends tell me that you can tell the sexes apart by the bill curvature (gentle Vs pronounced/sudden) - I can't, but don't discard the use of the bill in sexing Avocets, just yet.
I think it's fairly common knowledge that the juveniles and 2CY birds have a degree of brown mottling in (what will become) the whiter areas of their plumage (1st Summer birds are in their 2nd Calendar year). So, remembering that it's back to sexing (and you'll need pretty good views of the birds for this to stand fast): adult female birds tend to have a suggestion of a pale eye ring and a pale area of feathers at the root of the bill (whilst the male birds have neither). I'll find a few more pictures from yesterday and whack 'em up (hopefully) for clarification. I really hope you don't mind the ID lecture (especially from a "photographer" - one day they'll stop calling me that!), but I thought it was quite timely given their recent reappearance in numbers. But, it ain't straight forward.

There you go, pick 'em out of that! Sorry, I just thought it was worth posting a shot of 11 Avocets at Upton Warren (the other 3 just wouldn't play ball).



This second picture shows a bird with some brown mottling (enough - not sure), a hint of an eye ring and slightly pale upper bill base. On that, I'd go for a 2CY female, but if someone wants to die on their sword that it's an adult, don't let me stop you... I'm happy to be corrected in any of these identifications.



Same again with this (probably the same) bird 2CY female. You know what's going to happen here, don't you. I'm going to discover that I've only taken photos of one bird!



This last one is (I hope) an adult male. There's no pale bill base. The white under the eye is (again, I think) the secondary eyelid (nictitating membrane?) and there's insufficient brown to be a 2CY bird... Not sure whether this has helped, but I tried.

Another quick and pretty fool proof way, is that the female is usually the one underneath the male during copulation

woodwolf said:

Another quick and pretty fool proof way, is that the female is usually the one underneath the male during copulation

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Only usually?8-P

They only know one position in Kiddie, Rob!

Interesting stuff Sy. I'm going to be looking closer from now on. Thanks:t:

Rob

Sy V said:

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Sy nice article mate.
Like all guides they are not the definitive article.
I watched a pair displaying and was convinced I knew which was the male but when they mated it was the one with the white flecked forehead that was on top (unless the pair were swinging the other way8-P).
I then noticed another pair displaying and on closer inspection they were almost identical even down to a brownish wash on the scapulars and coverts.
This could be due to the birds not quite attaining full breeding plumage at present. I always think the males in summer plumage have a more glossy black head running below the eye devoid of any white flecking as opposed to the females. Females can show a partial white orbital or more often a white fleck above or below the eye or both, the black appears less extensive barely running below the eye. From a distance this can cause the head to appear not quite fully black. This coupled with brown in the tertials, scapulars and sometimes the coverts gives the the females a less clean pied appearance. I think the bill is so variable, that alone, it is not a good feature to distinguish the sexes.
Hope that helps, just my thoughts and observations B John
ps The same goes for the LRP at the moment, the female looks like a juv and the male like a female, in a couple of weeks the differences will be very apparent.

Thanks for the feedback, John. I think we can all agree that it's not easy.

I meant to post this a while back but it's taken ages for me to get 'round to editing it. I've never played with sound files before. Here's a recording of the build up to and dissipation of the Curlew roost at the Flashes (you can even hear them fly close to the hide and then get quieter as they get further away) recorded at 06:50 on 9th March this year (for you guys who simply can't get out of your scratchers!).

Hope you like it (it's only ~90 seconds long)... SOUND UP!

upstarts1979 said:

Sy nice article mate.
Like all guides they are not the definitive article.
I watched a pair displaying and was convinced I knew which was the male but when they mated it was the one with the white flecked forehead that was on top (unless the pair were swinging the other way8-P).
I then noticed another pair displaying and on closer inspection they were almost identical even down to a brownish wash on the scapulars and coverts.
This could be due to the birds not quite attaining full breeding plumage at present. I always think the males in summer plumage have a more glossy black head running below the eye devoid of any white flecking as opposed to the females. Females can show a partial white orbital or more often a white fleck above or below the eye or both, the black appears less extensive barely running below the eye. From a distance this can cause the head to appear not quite fully black. This coupled with brown in the tertials, scapulars and sometimes the coverts gives the the females a less clean pied appearance. I think the bill is so variable, that alone, it is not a good feature to distinguish the sexes.
Hope that helps, just my thoughts and observations B John
ps The same goes for the LRP at the moment, the female looks like a juv and the male like a female, in a couple of weeks the differences will be very apparent.

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Oh NO! My head has just stopped spinning from the gull discussion-now it's sexing Avocets. Mercy!:eek!:

seriously though, great discussion. :t:

Rob

Sy V said:

They only know one position in Kiddie, Rob!

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Well you only need one in Kiddie to make kiddies!!!8-P

Sy V said:

Thanks for the feedback, John. I think we can all agree that it's not easy.

I meant to post this a while back but it's taken ages for me to get 'round to editing it. I've never played with sound files before. Here's a recording of the build up to and dissipation of the Curlew roost at the Flashes (you can even hear them fly close to the hide and then get quieter as they get further away) recorded at 06:50 on 9th March this year (for you guys who simply can't get out of your scratchers!).

Hope you like it (it's only ~90 seconds long)... SOUND UP!

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Adds another dimension to the Upton thread. :t:John
you do realise that we now expect all the sounds of Upton to be recorded:smoke:
Keep em coming Sy..its almost like being there. Mind you you will have to be careful when recording, that you don't pick up a few of the off topic conversations going on between us. Some very incriminating evidence could be held, especially when Paul A and biking birder Gary get going if you know what I mean8-P

Just to remind visitors to the board that there are also many contemporary high quality images from Upton Warren Nature Reserve Here or via the link below

Worth bookmarking and checking back as the Spring progresses :t:

Sy, I have been interested for a while in recording bird song. What kit did you use for the recording, anything special? Tried the movie record function on my camera, but with little success (thanks to spell checker for that).

Nice set of Avocet pics, i particularly like the detail of the water droplets coming off the bill in the last picture........

Laurie -

Sy's already there and I am on my way(ish). Hopefully we will get something with these misty SE winds.
here's hoping:t:

Spent the first part of the day at the Moors 9am till 11.55am, where the cool easterly and low mist made it feel very un-spring like. Several chiffchaff sang and 2 Sand martins made a brief appearance, but this apart there was little in the way of movement.
As the mist lifted and things warmed up 4 Buzzards soared above the hide, causing panic. Oystercatchers were very animated with at least 6 present (7 on the reserve), the pair of lapwing displayed and 5 snipe performed well, just below the east hide.
The BHG colony numbered 340 (many of these were 1st summers), so hopefully we wont be swamped by them in the breeding season.
Other species seen at the Moors were:
GCG 4, Little grebe, shoveler 12 (8 males), Teal 10, Gadwall 4 (2 prs), shelduck pr, tufted 45, greylag pair, Herring gull 2, LBBG pr, kingfisher, green and great spotted woodpeckers, Mistle thrush 2 singing,

From 12 till 6.15pm I spent at the Flashes,
By 1pm the weather and birding was June like, hot, sticky and static. Unfortunately the Avocet numbers had dropped drastically from 14 (21st) to between 7 and 9 (22nd), to 5 today:-C. More worryingly they were for the most part feeding away from the 'core central area'. Birds were instead feeding in the 3rd Flash , in front of the 1st Flash hide and in the NE corner of the 1st Flash. Later however one was feeding in front of the new hide.
3 LRP were involved in a tag game chasing each other for an hour or more. Towards the end of the day things did liven up a bit, with a fly over calling adult Common gull, a green sand dropped from high to land in the 3rd Flash and the lapwing colony had built up to 20 birds. At least 3 separate meadow pipits flew over calling.
Other sightings at the Flashes included:
Teal 15, gadwall pr, shelduck a male was chased off by the pair from the Moors, snipe, Oystercatcher 4, BHG 300+ roosted, herring gull ad with a broken leg roosted and another 2 ads flew over. Coot 12, green woodpecker, stock dove c10, fieldfare 5 in the old orchard, linnet 4, pied wags 4, treecreeper,
green sand and common gull were both year ticks for me on the reserve.
B John

Todays images. The Avocets were a bit standoffish today but one did give me some very nice close views.

Rob

Great shots of the Avocets, pleasure to log on

forgetfulelephant said:

Todays images. The Avocets were a bit standoffish today but one did give me some very nice close views.

Rob

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Wowser Rob - superb! :t:

Gertatron said:

Wowser Rob - superb! :t:

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Cheers Gert.