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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Ivory-billed Woodpecker (formerly updates) (2 Viewers)

London Birder said:
do recent photo's exist of woodpecker/s which clearly show Ivory-billed, not sure I understand whether or not they do!

William Smith (aka tmguy) has published one
here

Many have presumed this to be a decoy (along with an early 1970's photo), which means a photo would have to be of a flying bird to be acceptable to skeptics. Of course, some skeptics have been discounting the multiple observations of flying birds, saying it needs to be perched to be a potentially reliable observation. This is, of course, a Catch-22. A bloody carcass would theoretically be convincing, except I'm sure some would claim the victim was the last bird and thus it was (again) extinct. If a skeptic were to see one, that might be convincing, except skeptics don't look for it since it is presumed extinct. The multiple circles of logic here explain the progression of this thread.
 
cinclodes said:
It's on the order of ten square miles. Since NASA tests rocket engines at Stennis, there's a much larger easement in the surrounding area that cannot be developed. This includes the Pearl River WMA, where there have been numerous sightings (including Kulivan's). NASA has a couple of field biologists on site, and one of them saw an ivorybill just south of Stennis in 2002. There have also been mountain lion sightings at and near Stennis. I heard kents at Stennis in 2000. This year, I heard double raps at Stennis and just across the Pearl from Stennis. Stennis provides easy access to prime habitat just above the cypress zone in an area with less disturbance than other parts of the Pearl.

Special Boat Unit 20 and 22 aslo train there as well as NAVSPECWARDEVGRU
 
emupilot said:
William Smith (aka tmguy) has published one
here

Many have presumed this to be a decoy (along with an early 1970's photo), which means a photo would have to be of a flying bird to be acceptable to skeptics. Of course, some skeptics have been discounting the multiple observations of flying birds, saying it needs to be perched to be a potentially reliable observation. This is, of course, a Catch-22. A bloody carcass would theoretically be convincing, except I'm sure some would claim the victim was the last bird and thus it was (again) extinct. If a skeptic were to see one, that might be convincing, except skeptics don't look for it since it is presumed extinct. The multiple circles of logic here explain the progression of this thread.
:clap:
 
Momentarily de-lurking. He does respond to polite inquiries, and though he and I had clashed on the forum (I started it), he was quite forthcoming in our private correspondence. I don't know if he'll provide a larger photo, however. I didn't ask.



emupilot said:
I haven't e-mailed him, but he has been known to respond to polite inquiries.
 
colonelboris said:
Thanks also and seconded on the bigger version.
Speaking of bigger versions, has your avatar grown? I shouldn't ask this without looking into past postings as I'm a few sheets to the wind, still...(three dots)...(again)it seems that at least a fledgling has been added.
 
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Colonel,

NEVERMIND, I guess I didn't notice the detail in the avatar before. Tells you what kind of birder I am. No one would believe me now if I go to AR and have an IB land in my canoe and eat my jalepeno and banana sandwich.
 
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emupilot said:
William Smith (aka tmguy) has published one
here

Many have presumed this to be a decoy (along with an early 1970's photo), which means a photo would have to be of a flying bird to be acceptable to skeptics. Of course, some skeptics have been discounting the multiple observations of flying birds, saying it needs to be perched to be a potentially reliable observation. This is, of course, a Catch-22. A bloody carcass would theoretically be convincing, except I'm sure some would claim the victim was the last bird and thus it was (again) extinct. If a skeptic were to see one, that might be convincing, except skeptics don't look for it since it is presumed extinct. The multiple circles of logic here explain the progression of this thread.

1970s photos from LA were not thought by some to be decoys but mounted specimens....... there were 4 photos taken... all of which pass modern scrutiny....they got shot down years ago for reasons I am not even going to get into... as for the bloody carcass thing......

I hope that doesn't happen again.. it has happened in LA before..
 
emupilot said:
William Smith (aka tmguy) has published one...
Many have presumed this to be a decoy (along with an early 1970's photo), which means a photo would have to be of a flying bird to be acceptable to skeptics. Of course, some skeptics have been discounting the multiple observations of flying birds, saying it needs to be perched to be a potentially reliable observation. This is, of course, a Catch-22.

I have posted video of a bird that is perched and then flying. The left dorsal stripe is visible when perched. The white trailing edge of the right wing is visible when it flies to the right. Some birders don't seem to realize that only an ivorybill has these field marks.

If Bill Smith's photo is a fake, I don't see anything obvious that gives it away. At first, the eye looked fake to me, but then I noticed that it's very similar to the eye of the female ivorybill in Plate 16 of Tanner. Someone mentioned that "He didn't even wait for the paint to dry," but the ivorybill is known to have glossy plumage. Someone else mentioned that the border between white and black is too sharp, but the same is true in Plate 16, and the ivorybill that I saw fly low across the water on February 17 had a very sharp border between the black leading edges and white trailing edges of the tops of the wings.
 
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Other old photos show a sharp break of white and black. Skins I have seen show less of a clear, definitive lineation. Could just be an individual variation.

I am not necessarily convinced by the photos, but I am certainly not going to call the man a liar based on what is presented. I assume most people are decent about things. Maybe that is not very hard nosed, but it makes life so much more pleasant.

Further, many people seem to have lost the concept that we can be critical of thoughts, evidence, and the like, and not be critical of the person.


Jesse
 
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emupilot said:
Many have presumed this to be a decoy (along with an early 1970's photo), which means a photo would have to be of a flying bird to be acceptable to skeptics.

No, it needs to be of a live bird.
 
Peregrinator said:
That should rule out 60% of the posters on this thread. ;)

Nice one Peregrinator - a late addition to this thread, you have hit the ground running, blown straight past the facts and got into the insults right away - you'll enjoy it.

see ya
 
cinclodes said:
I have posted video of a bird that is perched and then flying. The left dorsal stripe is visible when perched. The white trailing edge of the right wing is visible when it flies to the right. Some birders don't seem to realize that only an ivorybill has these field marks.

If Bill Smith's photo is a fake, I don't see anything obvious that gives it away. At first, the eye looked fake to me, but then I noticed that it's very similar to the eye of the female ivorybill in Plate 16 of Tanner. Someone mentioned that "He didn't even wait for the paint to dry," but the ivorybill is known to have glossy plumage. Someone else mentioned that the border between white and black is too sharp, but the same is true in Plate 16, and the ivorybill that I saw fly low across the water on February 17 had a very sharp border between the black leading edges and white trailing edges of the tops of the wings.

I'm sorry your character has been attacked so violently on this forum. I know how it feels to be not believed, although on a much smaller scale. In OZ, I saw a bird that was many K's from it's 'habitat'. I told an Aussie Twitcher at a pub in Airlie Beach, Qld, and he said I couldn't possibly have seen it. ( The same guy said I'd never see an Oriental Cuckoo; but I did) I did some research and found that the traditional southern habitat of this bird had been compromised by development. I saw this bird in the right habitat, but the 'wrong' state. I had it in my bins for more than five minutes. I had/have nothing to prove by lying. I didn't even know what this bird was until the day I saw it. I am very careful about 'ticks', and I don't mark questionable sightings. I marked that one. I know what I saw.
I hope you get a photo that will vindicate you. As the Aussie's say, "Good on ya,Mate."
I wish you the best, and hope you get the photo you need.
 
Bonsaibirder said:
Nice one Peregrinator - a late addition to this thread, you have hit the ground running, blown straight past the facts and got into the insults right away - you'll enjoy it.

see ya
Actually, I'm not a late addition. I live on a sailboat and do not have constant availablility to the internet or BF. I have read this thread in various ports, but never responded because I wasn't in one place long enough to do much more that read the posts. I'm not sure who you are referring to when you say I have got into the insults right away. I have defended myself, and jokingly spoofed certain sterotypes. Who did I insult?
 
70ivorybill78 said:
-------------------------
All these criteria have been met in detail, except the photo/video
refer to
www.sheridanzoo.com/ivorybill.htm

make sure to download and read the 6 pdf files at the bottom of page, they contain more information, details and illustrations including multiple field marks and one very rarely mentioned field mark.


OK, let's look at these records in detail with my record-assessment hat on. I'll do it formally as if it were a first for Britain. I don't speak like this really. :-O and I have no particular reason for wanting IBWO to be extinct.

The first sighting (1970)
was in the family garden when the observer was still living at home (presumable child/teenager). He had never seen Pileated, and in fact it sounds like it was the first time he had ever looked at a bird. While I'm not doubting that weird shit happens, does that not strike you as a bit unlikely?

Second, I know when I started birding I was not able to recall or describe bird plumages accurately. For example, I had my first Little Owl pointed out to me, and I remember every detail of where I was and who I was with, and my notes describe a Little owl, but every detail of my memory paints it as a Barn Owl, clear as day. It *was* a Little Owl but at the time my poor brain had only ever seen pictures of Barn Owl, so that's what I remembered seeing. There's loads of other 'I wonder if it was [rare bird]?' episodes from my early birding days, and I'm absolutely convinced that it is possible, in good faith, to 'remember' seeing an unidentified rarity when you were little and to convince yourself it really was a rarity, when in fact, as we all know, it was much more likely statistically, to have been a common bird. So I would want to see pretty good notes taken at the time before this record was acceptable.

Third, in light of that, there are no field notes presented (although they are referred to). The painting presented was drawn from memory *34* years later and includes very minor plumage and structural details that would not have been recorded or noted by a beginning birdwatcher. The details presented are not consistent with the competence of the observer or the circumstances of the observation.

Fourth, the description contains plumage and bare part details that are absolutely wrong for IBWO.

Formally, the record would be rejected, and privately I would think that (in good faith) the observer has inadvertently embellished his memory in the 34 years before doing his paintings.

The second record (1978) is a better one, if one ignores the fact that the observer's reputation was a bit shot by the previous flight of fantasy. The observer has now been birding for 8 years (good!) and has seen a 'fair few' Pileateds (not good - suggests limited experience - there are surely 1000s Pileateds to every putative IBWO). The sighting was less than 2 minutes (can't be helped) also close to the observer's house (wow! - odd), in flight and perched. Field notes were taken within 30 minutes of the sighting (just about acceptable) but are not presented. We are presented with two finished paintings that show more plumage details than could be observed under the circumstances, but are strongly indicative of IBWO. Unfortunately, they also contain details (bare part color) that are wrong for IBWO. If the original field notes were presented, the record might get the benefit of the doubt for an 'average' rarity, but would be probably be rejected if we were assessing it at a level equivalent to a British first.
 
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