• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

SFWS Survey 2016: More Birders Than Hunters? (1 Viewer)

pete_gamby

Birds? What Birds?!
USFWS Survey 2016: More Birders Than Hunters?

Just found that the preliminary data from the USFSW survey was published in August (bit slow on the uptake here!).

The data in the report always seems to go against what I hear both on forums and in conversation when I'm in the US.

The numbers that stood out for me are the 45 million total bird observers (page 8) compared to 11 million hunters (page 6). And the $1.8 billion spent on binos and scopes by wildlife watchers (page 17) seems an extraordinary amount but is only $385 per person on average with 4.8 million people buying.

Enjoy:

https://wsfrprograms.fws.gov/subpages/nationalsurvey/national_survey.htm

Pete
 
that's because all you have to own to CONSIDER yourself a birder is an old ruby coated tasco laying in the junk drawer.....to consider yourself a hunter you need at least one huntable gun, ammo, license, and a desire to hunt....
 
Not surprising. Hunting is declining in North America while birding is becoming more popular. This has been the trend for years now.
 
that's because all you have to own to CONSIDER yourself a birder is an old ruby coated tasco laying in the junk drawer.....to consider yourself a hunter you need at least one huntable gun, ammo, license, and a desire to hunt....

I've a 9mm rimmed rook rifle, #6, #7.5 & #8 shot, that I ease through a crack in the door for cowbirds trespassing under the bird feeder. No need of license und I most definately have the desire to rid the earth of every cowbird I encounter.

Does that qualify me as a hunter?
 
Just wondering how these numbers are best turned into pressure to protect birds? Not necessary against hunters, hunters and birds often have similar interests (e.g. protecting wetlands).

It seems that birders have oddly little influence on the public policy compared to hunters. Time to change it!

BTW, I am curious about similar numbers in mainland Europe.
 
Just wondering how these numbers are best turned into pressure to protect birds? Not necessary against hunters, hunters and birds often have similar interests (e.g. protecting wetlands).

It seems that birders have oddly little influence on the public policy compared to hunters. Time to change it!

BTW, I am curious about similar numbers in mainland Europe.

I believe this is a myth that hunters contribute so much more to conservation than birders.

I buy my duck stamp each year and know other birders who buy them. They are available at wildlife refuges such as Great Swamp in NJ (where I live). Great Swamp for example was saved by Helen Fenske, an environmentalist, from being filled in to make an Airport decades ago. Lots of examples of wildlife enthusiasts, environmentalists and wildlife organizations preserving land for wildlife which aren't specifically hunting orgs.

Sure there are those who don't pitch in yet enjoy the outdoors for wildlife observation, but I think most of us care and help in different ways.

http://wildlife.org/hunters-and-birdwatchers-more-likely-to-conserve/
 
Remember, these birder numbers usually include people that may occasionally watch birds at their feeders, yards etc., and [as a result] are vastly overstated in terms of what we would consider a ''birder.''
 
Remember, these birder numbers usually include people that may occasionally watch birds at their feeders, yards etc., and [as a result] are vastly overstated in terms of what we would consider a ''birder.''

True, there are lots of those people who put a feeder up and watch only occasionally and I understand you're talking about these types.

However, there are also those backyard bird watchers who engage more intensely by spending quite a bit of money attracting birds to their yard and e-birding their patch totals daily. They'll also spend money on a pair or two of binoculars. These types probably bird watch more than I do since I only have the weekends, days off work and sometimes find time before work or on lunch to go to a local spot. So, I wouldn't discount "backyard birders" since some are just as passionate about their hobby...they just don't travel to see birds.
 
I think it is not possible to call occassional birders 'not yet birders'. One cannot identify some external border, at what level of interest in birds one can be called a birder. Owns binoculars? Birder is a person who simply identifies itself as purposefully watching birds. It is no different from hunting - some hunters don't regularly go hunting.

What matters is how well all birders form a pressure group for conservation causes, and how to make it better. Hunters, in my opinion, are more active, better organized as a lobby, and also perceived publicly as more important lobby. Birders still are perceived, and see themselves, as a narrow niche hobby. However it is clear that birding is not a niche hobby anymore and should have bigger impact on politics than hunting.
 
Last edited:
I think it is not possible to call occassional birders 'not yet birders'. One cannot identify some external border, at what level of interest in birds one can be called a birder. Owns binoculars? Birder is a person who simply identifies itself as purposefully watching birds. It is no different from hunting - some hunters don't regularly go hunting.

What matters is how well all birders form a pressure group for conservation causes, and how to make it better. Hunters, in my opinion, are more active, better organized as a lobby, and also perceived publicly as more important lobby. Birders still are perceived, and see themselves, as a narrow niche hobby. However it is clear that birding is not a niche hobby anymore and should have bigger impact on politics than hunting.

All good points and well said.

Hardly mentioned are also hunter/birders who represent both sides and support conservation efforts and various organizations.
 
I believe this is a myth that hunters contribute so much more to conservation than birders.

Writing these words from the heart of foxhunting country, I can honestly say we had this argument on the run up to the hunting with dogs ban. The pro hunting lobby said all the fox coverts would be cut down and the land ploughed (that the rolling hills of Leicestershire would become barren of trees), that there would be an explosion in the fox population, and that starved through sheer numbers, the foxes would decimate ground nesting birds, spread disease, etc, etc.
Thirteen years since the ban and the coverts still stand, the fox population is stable, the ground nesting bird population is stable (but in slow decline due to other reasons), and Leicestershire seems to rumble on just as it's always done.
As for the birders/nature lovers? The Leicestershire and Rutland Wildlife Trust currently manage over 30 nature reserves within the two counties, not to mention Rutland Water, which was originally a basin dug in 1976 to provide drinking water, and is now an internationally important 'Heathrow Airport' for thousands of birds.
 
Regardless of your definition of ''birder'', that 45 million number is [as it has been in every survey of this type for years] massively inflated and unrealistic.
 
When bins/scopes sales exceed firearms/ammo voila!

Strength of hunting lobby is mostly that it is better organized that birding lobby.

Money from gun/ammo sales are not sequitur. Lobbying for e.g. open season comes from hunters themselves, not gun salesmen. Hunting rifles and ammunition are only minority of those sold in the USA.

Anyway, I meant that birders should watch, replicate and better lobbying of hunters. I did not mean that lobbying by birders should be against hunters or vice versa. As others said, interests of birders and hunters are usually not clashing, some people are both and some interests are the same.
 
More organized politically w/much more money to peddle influence.

How many bin manufacturers do not sell rifle scopes?

How many offer more bin models than rifle scope models?

Would the prevailing logic be to offer more models in the area that sells the most or the least?

As well I do not attempt to pit one side against the other either as conservation is embraced by birder & hunter alike.

Open seasons are regulated by state and federal government somewhat dependent on estimation of harvested game and current population be it hunting or fishing. Hunters/fishermen have very limited influence.

You are welcome to your opinion, but the gun lobby is most definitely fueled by firearms/ammunition sales.


According to ATFB in 2013 10,844,792
total firearms were produced in the states. None of these were for military, but did include police departments. Exports totaled 393,121. Imports totaled 5,539,539. Grand total for 2013 was a net plus 15,991,210 firearms.

For years the ammunition companies were unable to supply demand in the states. Not so much shotgun shells, but pistol calibre, the all time plinking round .22 along w/military style 5.56 NATO and 7.62x 39.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/how-loaded-is-the-gun-lobby/

2014 spending gun rights Vs. gun control in the states.

Independent Campaign Spending- GR $28,638,201 GC $13,643,045
Direct Federal Campaign Spending-GR $2,125,598 GC $399,750
Federal Lobby Spending- GR $9,287,728 GC $ 1,378,073

$40,051,527 Vs. $15,420,868 Gun rights spending almost 2.6X more and fueled by the sales leading to superior contributions in a nutshell.
 
Warning! This thread is more than 7 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top