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Competition Categories? (1 Viewer)

janine13

janine13

Well-known member
I really enjoy the monthly photo competitions. However, I think that they could be made more enjoyable by maybe having two or more categories, based on experience level or standard of equipment. For example, there could be a general category, "Birds in Water" but with two sub-groups, "Amateur" and "Experienced/Professional." Or, the division could be based on equipment, perhaps a separate category for digiscoped entries.
I make this suggestion because there are so many excellent photographs posted to this forum, and to the monthly competitions, that it may be a little intimidating to an amateur, and that those of us not using scopes or other special equipment may feel that our photographs do not "measure up" to the standard of the other postings. I am speaking for myself here, perhaps others feel differently. This is just a suggestion to maybe make the photo competition more fun for everyone. What do you all think?
 
Hi Janine,

I suppose I’m going to sit on the wall in a way on this one, but if I breakdown some of your points hopefully I can alleviate some of your fears and I’m sure your not alone.

Firstly the most important thing is that Birdforum is a wonderfully friendly site, where no-one (as far as I know) has any grudges or try’s to put down other members. Entries are voted on by us all, so many personal factors will decide which photograph (notice I didn’t say person) will win.

Taking part in the competition for me really is taking part in the Birdforum community. Winning although very nice isn’t the point for me entering and in the end if I am happy with a photograph it does not matter what anyone else thinks, although it is very pleasing when others like it as well.

With a category like we have this month “most humorous” an entry could be on a pinhole camera as I feel it’s what is in the shot and the caption that will win it, not really the technique so much. My own entry although cute (and I’m quite embarrassed in a way at some of the wonderful comments) could have easily have been taken on a single use or disposable camera processed at the local supermarket.

I think that the majority of experienced photographers are never fully happy with their equipment and frequently convincing themselves that they really do need that extra bit (or trying to convince their partner). Most of us have started with very basic kit, quite often instamatics or disposable cameras everyone has to start somewhere.

Many major open photography competitions are being won by amateurs who beat the professionals, so this even gives people like me hope.

I suppose what I’m saying is I know it’s more than a “little intimidating”, but dig out your funniest shot, bang it up here and have fun. In cyberspace no-one can hear you scream.

To return to your suggestion I can see both sides of the wall and will go with the wind, nice view from up here ;)

Hope that helps at least a little.
 
Hi Janine,

We try to select the competition themes that are attainable by every member with a camera, no matter what type of equipment, but as you obviously appreciate it is a difficult thing to do.

As Tony points out, this month's competition of Most Humorous Photo should really be won by whoever spots the funniest shot and thinks of an appropriate caption. I'd agree that if two people took the same shot, one using a disposable camera and the other a DSLR then the DSLR should win. I don't think we can ever really get away from that - but hopefully the winner will really be whoever was in the 'right place at the right time' rather than having the best equipment.

Your point is well taken though and it is something that we will consider further in future competitions. One suggestion is that since we have albums for landscapes, insects, animals etc that one of them could be a future theme.

If you have any more suggestions then please feel free to post them or contact myself or bcurrie.
 
IanF said:
We try to select the competition themes that are attainable by every member with a camera, no matter what type of equipment, but as you obviously appreciate it is a difficult thing to do.
.........
If you have any more suggestions then please feel free to post them or contact myself or bcurrie.
Click to expand...

Hi Ian,

I have an analogue (i.e., non-digital!) camera. The film currently in it, I started about a year and a half ago, and there's still 16 shots left on it. When I get it finished, it'll need to be developed, which can take about 3 weeks (slide film mailed to processing lab in high season).

Makes the rule 'photos must be taken this month' rather difficult to adhere to. Well, impossible, actually. Any chance that one could be dropped? Perhaps change it to 'photos must not have been posted previously'?

Michael
 
Hi Michael,

There's nothing wrong with posting your slide shots in the Gallery when they're processed, but for the competitions we decided from the word go that a monthly theme should be set and entries must be taken between certain dates. This in part is to try to set a challenge for members for the coming month and make it more widely appealing for anyone to be able to go out and get a shot, rather than members being able to select a shot from a library of shots taken over a number of years.

Again it is something that has been and still is under consideration, but we'd still like to try to make each competition as attainable as possible for the largest number of members.
 
Tony, I agree that this is a friendly site, I get many more responses to posted photos here than any other forum I have been on, it is very encouraging to someone like me who is rather new to photography and needs to build confidence.

I agree that this month's competition theme is one that someone at any skill level or any kind of camera could post a great photo to.

My point, which maybe was unclear, was not about who could win the contest. I was trying to say that with the fantastic quality of many of the shots being posted, that some people (like me!) may be intimidated and not wish to participate. But maybe that is just me. Well, theres only a couple days left for me to go shoot something funny so I'd better get to it... 3:)
 
Hi Janine,

Sorry it was me confusing things using the word "win", I did get your point and a very good one it is. It's sad because I'm sure many people are put off participating because they feel intimidated and it happens in many areas of photography.

I won't keep you with a long reply ..... after all you have some picci's to get LOL :t:
 
Hmmmm.... Seems to me that it might be a good idea to change the wording slightly, so that "taken this month" can be understood to mean "became available to the photographer this month". That is, a digital picture "becomes available" the day it is taken, where a film picture "becomes available" the day the negs come back from the processing firm. At the cost of a little complexity, that would be fairer to the film users. (No barrow to push here: I'm strictly a digital man.)

Tony
 
It depends a lot on where you live as well. Because I'm lucky enough to have a local pro lab, I can shoot before breakfast, have the slides back for lunch and go out again in the evening if I'm not happy with the results. Not many have that advantage with film.

Could we consider publishing a list of categories for the coming say 6 months that rolls on, with each category having a closing date.I have seen that method used, so would that help here?
 
Janine,

Sorry about my late response. I have been keeping an eye on this thread for some time, but have not had a chance to respond. Some of what I say has already been said.

Your idea is certainly a good idea. The problem is one of BF not really being a dedicated photography site. As such, it does not attract many true professionals. And the ones we have usually do not enter the competition anyway. Going on your "more experienced photographer" idea, that is difficult to ascertain. It goes not by the amount of time one has had the camera, but what they have done with it. Someone would have to decided who falls into what category. And it may be the subject matter that makes one more or less experienced (such as, with reflections I have a fair amount of experience because I have practiced a lot, but with birds in flight as long as I have my particular camera I will always be a novice because it is so slow to take a photo - comparatively speaking - that it greatly limits how much I can practice). So an alternative would be to have the photographer enter the photo him/herself in the respective experience category. Would we, meaning BF mods, then be delegated to still judging if it has been entered into the correct category? While I would not mind doing this if BF were a photography specific site, as is it is more of a hobbiest photographer's site (at best), truthfully it is a birding site that just happens to also have photography as a part of it. And I for one do not want to get all the PM's from people who I have "judged" incorrectly. I already get enought negative ones when I disqualify people for the competition with the rules spelled out in black and white (well blue in this case).

So not to disappoint, and I really do wish there were an easy way to implement your idea, but I think it may be a little ahead of its time.
 
Tony,

Re: publishing a list for the upcoming six months or so; when the competition began, it was decided that part of the aim/challenge would be to have the competition photos be taken during the time frame of the month's competition. There are many advantages to this as far as forming a competition. The main disadvantage is those who use film. I don't use film, but if I did I would have the same advantage as you as far as developing. We are still trying to figure out a way to include the film people with the developing disadvantage some of the time, though.
 
I know this thread has been dead for awhile now, not sure if anyone is still checking it, but I can see Janine's point clearly by looking at the entries to this month's competition. I myself am an amateur photographer/birder, and cannot help noticing that some of the cameras used to achieve such beautiful shots are so costly that I can never hope to achieve that level on my budget. I know some people will think, well whatever camera you have you can still get a decent shot, but I'd like to say that those people who do have 'economy' cameras have to work extra hard to get in close enough to get a clear shot. Its a miracle to me that I get clear shots at all (usually the birds I photograph are so used to people, they let me get close enough).

I guess what I'm saying is that I think sometimes the contests can be inherently biased towards those who do not have the means/time to secure expensive photography equipment, and that on seeing photos that are obviously up to the level as far as high technology goes, one can get very easily discouraged (that one being me). :) What it comes down to, is when I go to submit my shot, and I see one produced by a 2000 dollar camera, with such clarity that my eyes fall out of my head, I just don't even bother submitting, my blurry picture isn't up to that level!

I know there are plenty of exceptions to what I'm saying (i.e. those with very expensive equipment that take hundreds of shots of which only a few are viable, etc). I can only hope that in judging these things are taken into account, as going with what bcurrie said, implementation of any other system would probably be far more difficult, and I think possibly might cause more biases/problems than there are already.
 
Christine,

Of course these things are checked! These are certainly valid points. All things being equal, the better camera will take the better picture. However, things are rarely equal. In order to perfect ones abilities, sooner or later, one will have to get into more sophisticated equipment. Therefore, and I mean no offense to anyone, those who have better skills rarely post a competition photo taken with the type of camera you describe.

However, I will make you, janine13 and anyone else interested in this a deal. You do whatever you can (well, within the rules ;)) to have your friends, relatives, neighbors, enemies, etc. get so that we have 75+ entries for three consecutive months, and I will do everything in my power (now don't laugh) to get two separate competitions going each and every month. However, I state 75+ entries because it has to be worth Greenfields' while to go to the extra work.

What do you say, are you all up to it?

(P.S. I have made this thread a sticky to hopefully get it more attention and to help you all out.)
 
bcurrie said:
Therefore, and I mean no offense to anyone, those who have better skills rarely post a competition photo taken with the type of camera you describe.

However, I will make you, janine13 and anyone else interested in this a deal. You do whatever you can (well, within the rules ;)) to have your friends, relatives, neighbors, enemies, etc. get so that we have 75+
Click to expand...

Bcurrie,
Sounds like a great idea, however, as you said yourself, since those with better skills rarely post a competition photo with an 'economy camera', good luck getting 75+! Most people I know are owners of such cameras! Including me, hence the reason I've yet to enter. But in the interest of furthering the contests, I do think encouraging more people to enter is a good idea.
 
Christine,

I mean a total of 75 photos regardless of the camera used. So if you can get your friends and internet buddies to post a photo for three consecutive months (well, they can actually post two) then we are on our way. Not counting the current competion, we have had 36+ entries with each competition. I will make a point of regularly posting to the competition, so you already have one person on your side. I think this is doable.
 
This month's competition doesn't seem to have as many pix as usual (or maybe there will be a mad rush at the end, which I believe is tomorrow). I think it will definitely be a challenge to get 75+ entries for 3 months. Maybe if we promote it more as a "Photo Challenge" rather than contest, to kind of make it less intimidating? Instead of emphasizing the "Competition" aspect, we could maybe promote the spontaneity factor. For example, here's the challenge: capture an image of a bird in your yard. So instead of, everyone go out and try to get the BEST shot of a bird, its more of, hey everyone share what kind of birds they saw in their yard this month! Like a themed gallery, but as a monthly challenge. (This is how I tend to think of the photo competition anyway!) Does this make sense?
 
I have to agree with Janine, Christine and Oakdryad5. The equipment photographer's are using does intimidate those of us who are new to photography. I will post my photographs in the gallery but not the contests. If you do not care about winning,
just showing your photographs then the gallery is the place for that. Competition is competition, no getting around that. My own personal opinion (and my son Pauloly will probably disagree) but it does not take that much skill to scope a subject.
Granted, you have to plan the lighting and other things. But still you are right on top of the bird without the bird often even knowing. A good friend who is a professional once told me, it is not the camera, it is the eye behind the camera. I try and remember that so I will not get discouraged. Sometimes my best photographs were almost waiting for me to show up and shoot. Almost fate, if you will. Very exciting to lay claim to those. There, I've said my piece.
 
Some very good points have been raised here. We try to make the monthly competition as attainable as possible for every but there are some limits.

I agree Sparroweye in that it's not just about having the equipment, technique and composition count just as much as being able to get in close with a scope. That is one of the reasons why this month's competition was a garden/yard bird theme hoping that more members would find a suitable subject close to hand. The species did not matter, it was just being able to get a photo of a bird. Unfortunately we didn't get quite as many entries as we had hoped.

However no matter how attainable we make the themes there will always be the issue that a top end camera will out perform a budget camera in similar circumstances. Members will always vote for the best looking photo. I wish there was a way to make the competition more appealing/attainable and we're certainly open to suggestions on that score.

The competitions are run mainly on a fun basis hoping that members make look out for a likely shot each month and so can participate. Themes are set month by month so that those with top end equipment can't just submit an old photo. Everyone has to see what that months theme is and then find a suitable subject.

I agree with Sparroweye's friend up to a point - it needs a good eye behind the camera to spot a superb shot, but having decent equipment and knowing how to use it is what brings the shot home. Even then it's being in the right place at the right time what counts the most.
 
Last edited:
Sparroweye,

But what about entering the competitions just for the next three months to try and help Christine (and even yourself) out by getting us to that 75 number? Wouldn't you like it if we had the different categories like has been suggested?

BTW, I can relate to the, "Sometimes my best photographs were almost waiting for me to show up and shoot." Problem is, they are not always patient enough for me to show up!
 
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