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Bino Dilemma....Any Advice or Help?? (1 Viewer)

M

MUHerd

Well-known member
Hey all,

I just joined and am looking forward to getting involved. I have a degree in Zoology so you might guess that I enjoy learning about critters of all kinds.

Anyway, I have a question about Binoculars that I am hoping you all can give me some advice or help about.
I have a set of PENTAX DCF HRII in 10x42. I have had them for probably 10 years and they haven't been out of the house. Only rarely out of the case. I read that 8X is the preferred Bino for birding, is that true? Wouldn't you rather have 10X to see details on the birds more clearly?

What I am thinking about is selling or trading my Pentax binos and getting something better. They don't have to be new, I would gladly take a nice, used set. I'd like to know from you guys what brands or models I should be looking at. I'd like to keep the price at $350 or less.
Are there any really good binos in that price range? I have read that the most popular "entry" bino for birders that are just starting is the NIKON MONARCH 7 8x42. Would you agree with that?

Any help and advice you can give me would be appreciated. Thank you for your time.

Larry
 
Advise-well first:

Take the 10x42s outside and use them,
see the pros and cons first before getting another.
-do you need more, or less mag?
-do you need more FOV
-decide why you do not use them

The problem may be your interest, or lack of, instead of the binoculars;
if so, another pair will not solve the problem.

?
 
I would reiterate the advice above. You have a good set of binoculars now, get out there and use them.

It is true that a lot of birders use 8x but some will swear by 10x or 7x, some (particularly in the Bird Forum optics threads) will carry a whole range!

There is also the question of objective size; a 42mm will be useful in a range of lighting conditions but will be a bigger and heavier instrument.

So go out and try your 10x42s, then you can size up if you what something with less magnification or something smaller.
 
Thanks for the advice.

I just wanted to explain the situation. The reason my Pentax Binos never got used was because I had a "beater" set of binos that I would grab when I went hunting or out in the woods. Basically whenever I thought I was going to need binos, I would grab these beater binos. I didn't care whether they got dropped, wet, scratched up or whatever. I never did want to take my good binos because I was afraid to scratch them up or something else. I never really needed the good binos anyway cause I was never looking at anything where the premium glass and features were required, like for birding. In fact I've never thought about birding until recently, maybe a week ago. So I'm getting a really late start here and darn near everything I've read says the preferred binos are 8X. I thought that if I could deal my Pentax binos off to someone without too much trouble and then get a nice set of 8X binos, I would do it.

I'm going to get my Pentax out and use them for a bit and see how they perform and work for me. I'm sure at some point in the future I'm gonna want to upgrade to a better bino, especially if I am into birding and meet other birders and try their binos and compare them to my Pentax set.
Thanks again guys/gals for the help.

Have a good week.
Larry
 
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MUHerd said:
Hey all,

I just joined and am looking forward to getting involved. I have a degree in Zoology so you might guess that I enjoy learning about critters of all kinds.

Anyway, I have a question about Binoculars that I am hoping you all can give me some advice or help about.
I have a set of PENTAX DCF HRII in 10x42. I have had them for probably 10 years and they haven't been out of the house. Only rarely out of the case. I read that 8X is the preferred Bino for birding, is that true? Wouldn't you rather have 10X to see details on the birds more clearly?

What I am thinking about is selling or trading my Pentax binos and getting something better. They don't have to be new, I would gladly take a nice, used set. I'd like to know from you guys what brands or models I should be looking at. I'd like to keep the price at $350 or less.
Are there any really good binos in that price range? I have read that the most popular "entry" bino for birders that are just starting is the NIKON MONARCH 7 8x42. Would you agree with that?

Any help and advice you can give me would be appreciated. Thank you for your time.

Larry
Click to expand...

Ed said: Then decide WHY you do ... That is so very important. The buying decision should always be yours. Any number of people, on any number of forums, would be pleased to spend your money on what they would like to have. Keep YOUR hand on YOUR wallet and make your own judgment call. :cat:

Bill
 
Larry,

I have a few thoughts, not really specific to your original question, but you still may want to consider.

I have used 10x, 8x, and 7x for birding. I have sold all but my 8x.... However, with that being said, I am in the process of getting 10x and 7x again! I got the 8x to try to have just one binocular instead of 2 (10x and 7x). Now I wish I would have kept a 7x and 10x.

I have found that it all depends on the habitat on which I am birding in as to which power I like more. If in dense forest where I may be looking for birds in heavy cover that are only going to be a short distance away, then 7x is my favorite due to it's wider field of view and stability. If I am birding in pretty much every other situation such as open country, grass lands, forest edges, etc...then I like 10x better.

If you only plan to have one binocular, I think 8x is a good choice. But there is a nice advantage in having a 10x and 7x to choose from depending on the type of birding you are going to do.
 
Strongly second edwincjones, his counsel is good.
The 7x or 8x or 10x decision is a distraction. Whatever you use will work for you.

I birded with 12x50s for many years. They worked splendidly in all situations, providing superior reach at the price of a narrower field of view. The backup glass was 8x30, less reach and a wider field. Making the switch was never a problem.
 
Hey all,

I went out today and sat among some trees in the neighborhood to test out my good Binos. I first compared them to my beater set and it is easily seen how much better my Pentax are than those Bushnell beaters I have that I used frequently. Then I spent quite a bit of time just looking in the trees. I didn't see any birds in the trees I was looking in, but I heard familiar songs all around me. I was trying to find the sucker, but it was hidden too well I guess. I did enjoy the singing though.

I found out that I like having 10X to be able to see details better. My one complaint about my Pentax DCF HRII is the weight. Holding them up to my eyes for extended periods of time gets kinda hard. I found myself having to take little breaks from holding them up. I was sitting too so I imagine it would be more difficult when I was standing and holding them up to my eyes. My beater set is light as a feather and no trouble at all to hold up for extended periods. Of course the lenses in them are probably some kind of plastic cause I doubt they are true glass lenses.

Anyway, that was the only negative I had today. I don't mind the 10X at all, but I would've liked to found some birds in the trees where I would've been able to watch them and follow them when they took flight to really see how these 10X worked for me in that situation. I'll try again tomorrow for a bit. I could certainly see me getting a Bino that was lighter weight in the future.

Thank you all for your time and help. I appreciate it.
Larry
 
MUHerd said:
Hey all,

I went out today and sat among some trees in the neighborhood to test out my good Binos. I first compared them to my beater set and it is easily seen how much better my Pentax are than those Bushnell beaters I have that I used frequently. Then I spent quite a bit of time just looking in the trees. I didn't see any birds in the trees I was looking in, but I heard familiar songs all around me. I was trying to find the sucker, but it was hidden too well I guess. I did enjoy the singing though.

I found out that I like having 10X to be able to see details better. My one complaint about my Pentax DCF HRII is the weight. Holding them up to my eyes for extended periods of time gets kinda hard. I found myself having to take little breaks from holding them up. I was sitting too so I imagine it would be more difficult when I was standing and holding them up to my eyes. My beater set is light as a feather and no trouble at all to hold up for extended periods. Of course the lenses in them are probably some kind of plastic cause I doubt they are true glass lenses.

Anyway, that was the only negative I had today. I don't mind the 10X at all, but I would've liked to found some birds in the trees where I would've been able to watch them and follow them when they took flight to really see how these 10X worked for me in that situation. I'll try again tomorrow for a bit. I could certainly see me getting a Bino that was lighter weight in the future.

Thank you all for your time and help. I appreciate it.
Larry
Click to expand...

Larry

Why don't you try putting some food down for the birds? Make sure it is not too close to where you will sit.

When your arms get tired for sure you will lose some of the feather details sooner with 10x than with 8x simply because the higher magnification also magnifies your slight tremble. Note also that the view through the bins will be larger with 8x so if you are searching for birds in a big sky or or on a big area of water, or even flying quickly to and fro at a close distance, the 8x will give you a better chance of capturing it in the view. If you bird in windy conditions then even when your arms are not tired you will get more wind-induced trembles with a 10x than an 8x. If all this seems aimed at persuading you away from a 10x then rest assured it is not. Many birders rely on their 10x not just for extra detail but just to feel that bit closer to the bird you are looking at. Good luck with your choices.

Lee
 
Larry,

Glad you got out and enjoyed your Pentax. A quick tip for birding. First, find the bird with your naked eye, then use the binocular to see what it is and get a closer look. This will help you with the weight issue. Not sure what the weight of your Pentax is, but I would assume it is close to the majority of 10x42s. It is typical for many quality 10x42 sized binoculars to be between 25-30 ounces.

8x42s are going to weight practically the same.
 
Hi Larry,

If you are going to be birding in and around your neighborhood trees often you might find an 8x binocular to be more useful. It will have a deeper "depth of field," especially if you are trying to follow birds through the branches of nearby trees.

You might consider the small sized Nikon Monarch 7 8x30. It has a very wide field of view (FOV) of 435'@1000 yards which helps make tracking the bird you are watching easier. It weighs 15.3 ounces and has 15mm eye relief.

It will be lighter and easier on your arms too.

Cabela's sells them for $380.00. I purchased one from them by mail order and I am very pleased with it. I generally keep it in my car.

You can still keep your 10x for use at the famous fall Hawk migration around Brownsville, Texas. Take a folding arm chair to sit in and help brace your arms while using it.:t:

Bob
 
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Hi,

as has been stated, an 8x30 or so is a good and light general purpose bin, the 10x42 is more for special occasions where larger distance viewing is expected (near water or viewing raptors etc).

Obviously the best pair of bins is the one you are carrying when you see something, so maybe if the format of your beater Bushnells suits you, get sth better in that format. If you tell us what they are we could recommend sth.

Joachim
 
Larry,

Lot's of good advice here already, so let me add a few pointers from a fellow newbie. I recommend looking for and going out with a local group. You will not only learn about birds more quickly, you will learn about all the local spots for viewing. I was surprised at how many local active groups I found.

I've learned that experienced birders invariably spot things by eye and then bring the binoculars up to verify and view detail. They use a variety of cues including movement, sound cues, knowledge of what is likely in the habitat, and just their experience about the behavior of the likely culprits. I think the real point is that you want to use all your senses, including peripheral vision to "get on" the bird. Even through a relatively wide field binocular, it would be like searching through a soda straw.

My biggest problem with weight is carrying the binocular, especially using the typical neck strap. Getting a proper strap (neoprene works fairly well) helps a bit, but I prefer using a harness. I've also seen folks use a "bandolero style" where the strap is over one shoulder and across the chest so the binocular rides on the opposite side. BTW, if a binocular is well balanced, weight can be an advantage enabling you to hold it more steady.

Alan
 
Hey all,

Thank you all very much for the tips, help and suggestions. I am paying attention to ALL of them, trust me.

I think my PENTAX 10X42 are right at 30 ounces. That's what was listed on the spec sheet when I looked it up the other day. I think I need to get, or at least try out, one of those harnesses. It looks like it would definitely take pressure off of the back when walking around carrying them.

I do plan on getting together with some local groups as soon as I find what groups are close to me. I know there are tons of Birders in Houston, but the city is about 45 minute drive for me and it's really messy with the traffic that's always on the interstates and highways here. I'd rather find a group or mentor here in Spring, where I actually live. I'm sure they are here, I just haven't searched for them yet.

I'll check out those 8x30 binos you all mentioned. I'm sure they're really nice, they're NIKON MONARCH 7 models. I've read all kinds of great comments on the Monarch models and those that have them, seem to love them. They speak of them in glowing reviews and many say they are the best BINOS you can buy under $1,000. I don't know about that, but they are nice. Heck, I'd like to look through some of these really high dollar Binos just to see how they compare to mine and see what I'm missing.

Thank you all again and have a great week.
Larry
 
It always helps to "try before you buy."

There is a Cabelas store in League City near Houston. It might have some Nikon Monarch 7 binoculars you can try out. Also check to see if they have any binoculars in their "Bargain Cave."

The store is having a big sale until April 5th.


Bob
 
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Hi,

going to a store and trying some bins is warmly recommended - Cabelas has some nice bins under their house brand - most notably the Euro HD which are actually Meopta Meostar B1 and quite good (but out of the price range even on sale).

The lower priced guide model was also reviewed favorably in here (http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=332112) but since in that review they're talking about a closeout and silver coated prisms and the description now touts 58 layer dielectric prism coatings, it seems to be a new model... plus you get a chance to write your first review on BF ;-)

Joachim
 
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ailevin said:
...I've learned that experienced birders invariably spot things by eye and then bring the binoculars up to verify and view detail...
Click to expand...
I take your point but "invariably" is too strong a word. Eyes are used to locate appropriate habitat. Eyes and ears are usually used to find/identify individual birds and groups of birds. But both experienced and inexperienced birders will miss many birds if they don't also use binoculars (or sometimes even a scope) for scanning in some situations, for example oak and spruce tree tops during spring wood-warbler migration, along long distant edges of marsh vegetation (e.g. cattails) for momentary views of rails walking through breaks in the vegetation, plowed or close-hayed fields in winter for larks, pipits, and longspurs (perhaps first detected by ear, but not necessarily), and the surface of large lakes for the occasional very distant lone loon (= diver), grebe, alcid, or similar. Binoculars can also be used to pick out predators lurking strategically in shaded spots within a landscape that the naked eye can't see into because of the contrast of the overall scene.

--AP
 
Alexis,

You are correct, my language was too strong for two reasons. First I haven't spent enough time with experienced birders to state anything about their behavior as invariable. Second, I have learned to scan distant shorelines and marshy land/water boundaries, where I know certain species hang out. I would put that down to learning about behaviors and habitats from my outings with birding groups and revisiting habitats.

I also appreciate that you take my point. When I started I had the tendency to constantly scan with my binoculars viewing nothing in particular. Especially as a newbie, I found it much more effective to stay close to the group leader or other seasoned birders and respond to their sightings. Once I knew where they were looking (not always easy for me), I could get my binoculars on the bird if I was quick enough. Gradually, my ability to sight things seems to be improving. Yet I always see more and learn more when out with a group.

Thanks,
Alan
 
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