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Mealy Redpoll West Mids (1 Viewer)

Whilst enjoying this thread & happy too go with the majority & especially the birders up North with more experiance of these birds im still unsure especially after reading up in Birding World Vol 18 No2 page 76 shows a presumed Icelandic bird with a Pure white looking rump & undertail coverts & also the thicker flank streaking which the Marsh lane bird seems to show??? Its certainly caught the imagination & got a few of us looking into the ID which can only be beneficial too us all regardless of its eventual ID (If we can?)

Dave
 
So it wasn't just me who thought it was interesting then? I guess we may never know for certin with this one, but can somebody point an expert in the direction of this thread (as suggested by CAU)? Any comments on Dave's suggestion of an 'Iceland' type redpoll? Thanks for all input so far - very informative.

For those interested the bird is still present today.

Many Thanks,

Tom
 
Bird still present @ Marsh Lane this morning with 3 Lesser Redpoll

The bird showed very well today feeding on the road and in the low vegetation just before the horse paddocks.

The undertail coverts are quite heavily marked on the bird (see pic below):

IMG_3451.5.jpg

structurally in the field the bird appered more like Mealy, although the rump is very white.

Whatever it turns out to be, nice to have it on my local patch |:D|

For more photos see my website below and click on Marsh Lane pic's
 
Bird still present @ Marsh Lane this morning with 3 Lesser Redpoll

The bird showed very well today feeding on the road and in the low vegetation just before the horse paddocks.

The undertail coverts are quite heavily marked on the bird (see pic below):

View attachment 118977

structurally in the field the bird appered more like Mealy, although the rump is very white.

Whatever it turns out to be, nice to have it on my local patch |:D|

For more photos see my website below and click on Marsh Lane pic's

is this really the same bird, looking at the images on the website I'm seeing a quite different looking individual from the bird depicted up thread!

Rob
 
That was debated about this morning as in my opinion it does look different from the pic's already posted however i was present this morning with the two finders (one of which is my dad) and the head warden (who had seen the bird on the 24th) all of which agreed that this was the same bird as they had seen previously
 
That was debated about this morning as in my opinion it does look different from the pic's already posted however i was present this morning with the two finders (one of which is my dad) and the head warden (who had seen the bird on the 24th) all of which agreed that this was the same bird as they had seen previously

the original bird has asymmetrical breast streaking, much heavier looking on one side, but these latest pics show a bird with a more symetrical pattern and it looks generally browner too.

Rob
 
So it wasn't just me who thought it was interesting then? I guess we may never know for certin with this one, but can somebody point an expert in the direction of this thread (as suggested by CAU)? Any comments on Dave's suggestion of an 'Iceland' type redpoll? Thanks for all input so far - very informative.

For those interested the bird is still present today.

Many Thanks,

Tom

Fascinating thread, especially as Redpoll is one of the very few passerines I get to see on a daily basis. My first thought when I saw this bird was that it looks like one at the paler end of the islandica range, although I sometimes wonder if vagrant birds not easily attributed to any subspecies are dumped into islandica for the sake of convenience. Most of our birds are much darker than this, I had about 60 at my feeders yesterday and all were dark, heavily streaked birds including several apparent rostrata but I saw two in the week very similar to this one, with an apparently unmarked white rump and no undertail streaking visible on the pretty decent views I had. You can get even paler birds here that no one is entirely sure where they belong. I only have experience of Icelandic Redpolls (besides the odd cabaret in England) but if I saw the West Midlands bird in my garden I wouldn't be 'phoning a friend.'

Here's are two mystery redpolls from Iceland. Knock yourselves out.
http://www.pbase.com/birdingiceland/carsp

E
 
the original bird has asymmetrical breast streaking, much heavier looking on one side, but these latest pics show a bird with a more symetrical pattern and it looks generally browner too.

Rob

Agreed, however the bird does appear browner or more white depending on the light conditions in each photo. Redpolls are also very uncommon at Marsh Lane, this group of three Lessers and the bird in question are the only birds which have been recorded so far this winter, meaning that although possible, it is unlikley that one Mealy would leave the flock to be replaced only by another Mealy
 
There are some photos of similarly pale Mealy Redpolls on e.g. birdguides.com and tarsiger.com. Some may be incorrectly labelled of course. I think the photos of the Marsh Lane bird don't quite show the true appearance of the rump - I'm (reasonably!) sure it is finely streaked and in the field it doesn't seem to be as unmarked as the photos suggest. I don't think I was the only one who noticed this while watching the bird. The bird does look big-billed, it is quite streaky on the flanks and breast sides and has brown tinges on the tertials, which combine to make it rather un-Arctic-like.

I agree it is 1cy bird, probably a male (pink cheeks).

It is a very striking bird, but I think it looks more Arctic-like in the photos than it does in the field.

John
 
the UTCs in the 'new' pic are Mealy - lots of wide arrowy streaks

is this not visible in the field?

Tim

Just seen the new photos.

The streaks are visible in the field - see message number 3 posted by Periwinkle. The streaks were quite hard to see though, because it was feeding low down. When the undertail was on view, the thickest streak (on the longest undertail covert) was usually very obvious, but the others weren't and it usually looked less streaky than it does in the photo. The streaky undertail coverts are one of the reasons it was identified in the field as a Mealy.

John
 
I agree with Rob, the new photos seem to show a somewhat different looking bird than the previous ones (bolder streaks on the flanks, the streaks on the UTCs look much wider, the head and ear coverts look more streaked), I wouldn't be too sure that it is the same bird. If it is, then photos can be really deceiving (but of course they can)...

Redpoll identification is truly a mess, for example Svensson mentions (in the passerine guide) that some of the skins in museums labeled as Icelandic Redpolls are actually Arctic Redpolls that have been misidentified...

In southern Finland we don't have islandica (or who knows...), but lots of the nominate subspecies, with maybe 2% Arctic Redpolls among them (and maybe somewhat more Lesser Redpolls), but the numbers vary greatly from year to year (Arctic is more common in northern Finland, one year there was a flock of over 100 near Oulu). Some Mealies are pale, paler than the Marsh Lane bird, so paleness is not a good id feature. I must say that I haven't seen an Arctic Redpoll with such a big looking bill, but on the other hand I have usually identified only the best looking individuals (and it is claimed that Arctic Redpolls with large bills are usually overlooked). Usually if you see a bird with a clearly unstreaked rump, all the other characters fit well too...

Fascinating thread, especially as Redpoll is one of the very few passerines I get to see on a daily basis. My first thought when I saw this bird was that it looks like one at the paler end of the islandica range, although I sometimes wonder if vagrant birds not easily attributed to any subspecies are dumped into islandica for the sake of convenience. Most of our birds are much darker than this, I had about 60 at my feeders yesterday and all were dark, heavily streaked birds including several apparent rostrata but I saw two in the week very similar to this one, with an apparently unmarked white rump and no undertail streaking visible on the pretty decent views I had. You can get even paler birds here that no one is entirely sure where they belong. I only have experience of Icelandic Redpolls (besides the odd cabaret in England) but if I saw the West Midlands bird in my garden I wouldn't be 'phoning a friend.'

Here's are two mystery redpolls from Iceland. Knock yourselves out.
http://www.pbase.com/birdingiceland/carsp

E

Maybe some Redpoll researcher needs to make a trip (or a few) to Iceland to sort this out...
 
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the original bird has asymmetrical breast streaking, much heavier looking on one side, but these latest pics show a bird with a more symetrical pattern and it looks generally browner too.

Rob

Havin seen Lee J's & B.Duckhouse's photo's i'm not convinced this is the same bird its an altogether darker more heavily streaked bird & i dont believe that the photographic effect would have been that great!!! on the 1st day Steve Seal & myself watched the bird there was at least 5 birds & i got onto 1 which was clearly paler than the Lssrs but not as pale as the Common (even the wing bars on the latest photos don't appear as white & it doesnt appear to have such a feathered tarsii as the bird on the 23/12 & 24/12) I know in certain light you can get a photographic effect but the bird we photographed over 2 days clearly looks different!!!?

Dave
 
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Bob D's Photos show a bird with a damaged bill (see link). The earlier ones don't have this.

http://www.bobduckhouse.fotopic.net/p47456222.html

Hi Tom,

Im quite certain on the 2 bird theory especially after seeing a very light bird on the 23rd which wasn't the same bird Steve & I photographed & clearly looks totally diff too the bird that Steve,myself & your goodself watched alongside several others!!!

Dave
 
Marsh Lane bird again showing well & more shots taken which seems to show a different bird to the one taken by Lee J & B.Duckhouse (the U/C look more inline with the original bird & not so heavilly streaked!!?) also added a distant shot showing the feathered tarsii!!!

Any comments again please!!! :t:
 

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Marsh Lane bird again showing well & more shots taken which seems to show a different bird to the one taken by Lee J & B.Duckhouse (the U/C look more inline with the original bird & not so heavilly streaked!!?) also added a distant shot showing the feathered tarsii!!!

Any comments again please!!! :t:

Sorry Dave but still think its the same bird as me and Bob had. As for the more prominent undertail coverts in the photo, i think that this was due to the position the bird was in, making these feathers more obvious. The one you took pic's of today also has the same looking 'slightly deformed' bill. The bird last thursday (although not obvious from mine or Bob's photos) also had feathered Tarsii
 
Sorry Dave but still think its the same bird as me and Bob had. As for the more prominent undertail coverts in the photo, i think that this was due to the position the bird was in, making these feathers more obvious. The one you took pic's of today also has the same looking 'slightly deformed' bill. The bird last thursday (although not obvious from mine or Bob's photos) also had feathered Tarsii

Hi Lee,

Can't seem to see any deformities in the bill on this bird in Bobs photographs (could be seed heads?) it seems quite prominent!! 3rd time ive photographed this bird & mine all seem to show uniform pale U/C!! i'd go for the same bird but your bird seems to show warmer tones(yes it could be a trick of the light?) but it would be interesting to get a print out of the birds & compare side by side as your pops suggested this morning!!!

Dave
 
A few more angles.
 

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