Seville, Spain in November (1 Viewer)

Hi

I'm hopefully heading off on a short 4 day or so holiday to Seville in the first week of November and I thought here would be the best place to ask for things to look out for. I've had a quick skim of my most up to date and comprehensive European bird book and there certainly seems to be a large number of things around that I'd be interested in seeing, but as this isn't specifically a birdwatching trip, I'd like some advice on what can be seen on a casual basis, or if there is one particular day trip worth doing in the time.

I'm interested in both things which aren't found in Britain at all, and, species which are found here but my birdbook seems to suggest are far more common there (things like cirl bunting, serin, crested tit, chough and firecrest for example my book suggests are far less localised)

But yes, for the most part things which are very easy to get in/around Seville are of most interest - are things like Spotless Starling, Crag Martins, Spanish Sparrow, Red-nobbed coot and Azure-winged Magpie as common as their equivelants in Britain for example?

Plus obviously if I can swing a day I'd love to see some of the big raptors, or things like Storks or Flamingos. But really I'd prefer to get almost certain chances of lots of new things rather than risk not seeing anything going after scarcer species.

But any help would be massively appreciated! Thanks in advance!

Seville is a wonderful city so don't neglect it too much. I recommend a visit to the alcazar ('castle') and its wonderful gardens. There might even be a few Lesser Kestrels around the cathedral too. If architecture/history are also your thing I'd also recommend side trips to Carmona (have a coffee in the parador there!) and further afield Osuna (see also below)

You might like to check out my blog (see below) for info about birding the farmlands about an hour east of Seville (i.e. around Osuna). I'll probably load up some more info on the Lagunas de Lantejuela (in the same area) later today. It's not the best time of the year but Spotless Starlings, Great & Little Bustards, Flamingos, Black-winged Kite, White-headed Duck should all be possible.

Azure-winged Magpie should be easy at several sites on the Coto (esp. 'El Acebuche') and Spotless Starling is widespread (but 'our' version will be in southern Spain too). I've found Spanish Sparrow quite easy to see at Brazo de Este (although I know more sites further south). Crag Martins should still be around too. A quick trip to the NW up to Aracena (a lovely area) should also net Black Vulture too. Should you want to have a side trip further south into Cadiz province, as others here know, I have a few notes on birding sites in that area which I'm happy to share,

John Cantelo said:

Seville is a wonderful city so don't neglect it too much. I recommend a visit to the alcazar ('castle') and its wonderful gardens. There might even be a few Lesser Kestrels around the cathedral too. If architecture/history are also your thing I'd also recommend side trips to Carmona (have a coffee in the parador there!) and further afield Osuna (see also below)

You might like to check out my blog (see below) for info about birding the farmlands about an hour east of Seville (i.e. around Osuna). I'll probably load up some more info on the Lagunas de Lantejuela (in the same area) later today. It's not the best time of the year but Spotless Starlings, Great & Little Bustards, Flamingos, Black-winged Kite, White-headed Duck should all be possible).

Azure-winged Magpie should be easy at several sites on the Coto (esp. 'El Acebuche') ans Spotless Starling is widespread (but 'our' version will be in southern Spain too). I've found Spanish Sparrow quite easy to see at Brazo de Este (although I know more sites further south). Crag Martins should still be around too. A quick trip to the NW up to Aracena (a lovely area) should also net Black Vulture too. Should you want to have a side trip further south into Cadiz province, as others here know, I have a few notes on birding sites in that area which I'm happy to share,

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Thanks! I'm going with my (non birding) girlfriend, so most trips will only have incidental birding (though I reckon I can wrangle soem time) but yeah- part of the reason we ended up choosing Seville was because of the history and architecture (and food). Looks like with all the choices I'm going to have to prioritise a bit! Thanks again for the help!

Right, trip is now booked! From the 1st of November to the 5th, so now time to actually try and make some more plans.

I had a quick peruse though my most up to date european bird book and found 50 species that I'd potentially be interested in seeing, although there are obviously some which would take too much effort to find.

Firstly - apart from the Lesser Kestrel and Spotless Starling - are there any species around in Seville itself which should theoretically be consistantly easy to find? How about in the farmland outside the City?

Secondly - if I had one day out of the city, where would people recommend? Donana seems to be where most internet pages recommend, but I've no idea how easy/affordable it would be to get to on public transport?

Thirdly - I came across this book online, and was wondering if anyone had read it before/knew how good it was? As its fairly expensive for a birdbook (given I normally pick up my bird books in the charity shop I volunteer at anyway ) I was wondering if anyone had read it to see if it was worth the money?

Finally - are there any sites in the region which could be a good combination of a history/architecture sort of trip with some birds on the side?

Thanks again for any help - so many choices with so little time to fit them in!

Alexjh1 said:

Firstly - apart from the Lesser Kestrel and Spotless Starling - are there any species around in Seville itself which should theoretically be consistantly easy to find? How about in the farmland outside the City?

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Welcome to Andalucía Alexjh1. I will try to give you some clues for the best... Seville itself can give you interesting birding times apart the two species formerly mentioned. Little Owls can also be discovered in some of the churches facades and two pairs of White Storks breed and winter in town (not by the City centre). A walk along the riverside, from the harbour to upper Torneo street, could also offers you Fan-tailed Warbler, Osprey, Waxbills and unexpected birds indeed (there are five to eight Scops Owl wintering in the surroundings). This is also a regular feeding corridor for Booted Eagle, even in november!!!

Checking farmlands close to the city is not easy as Sevilla extends itself surrounded with motorways, rings and so on. You need at least one-hour bus service to get the best villages but form there you would have to walk for a while to get decent places where birds are. What I recommend you is going to the bus station (Plaza de Armas) and take a bus to Santiponce (a village), asking to stop at ITÁLICA, one of the most important ancient Roman cities in Hispania. Visiting the ruins will give you both opportunities, birding in a more friendly habitat (serin, Cattle Egret, Red-rumped Swallow, warblers and fringilids...) and admire an historic place, getting then two birds with a stone!

Alexjh1 said:

Secondly - if I had one day out of the city, where would people recommend? Donana seems to be where most internet pages recommend, but I've no idea how easy/affordable it would be to get to on public transport?

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Doñana is the best election, no doubt! Keep in mind that the best places for birding in the area are less than 35 km from the city. Nevertheless, Public transport is not very good and if you don't drive your or a hired car, you will get some disadvantages because the distances are too long to go on foot. October and november is the rice harvest peak season and birds roam the territory in search of food. You could try some of the routes proposed in my book 'Where to Watch Birds in Doñana' and combine a couple of them with a public transport from Seville to Puebla del Río (another village). You could then tick several species of your list!

Alexjh1 said:

Thirdly - I came across this book online, and was wondering if anyone had read it before/knew how good it was? As its fairly expensive for a birdbook (given I normally pick up my bird books in the charity shop I volunteer at anyway ) I was wondering if anyone had read it to see if it was worth the money?

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A very good guide indeed!! But the range covered exceeds the Seville area, so you could also use it for future trips to Spain! Written by Andy Paterson and Dr. Ernest García, two of the top-ornithologists from Málaga and Gibraltar/UK.

Alexjh1 said:

Finally - are there any sites in the region which could be a good combination of a history/architecture sort of trip with some birds on the side?

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Already answered before, with the Romans ruins of Itálica to the top, but also the Cathedral and the Giralda tower (showed on Collins Bird Guide, page 95) :t: The Cartuja Monastery and Guadalquivir river, the Moorish Gardens of the Alcázares and the Plaza de España with the María Luisa Gardens are, in my opinion, the best choices for the town itself.

Combination of historic/architecture/gardens and nature/birding is one of my favourite activities. I will be able to offer new ideas in the future that I will post in a new thread.

Good trip, luck and hope to hear from you when coming back!

Jorge

Paterson & Garcia is well established as THE guide to south-west Spain, but Jorge, is, of course being too modest as his book is absolutely superb too. As he points out it covers the wetlands of the Coto Doñana in much greater detail (and includes areas on the east bank of the Guadalquivir around Sanlucar too). As he points out, without access to a car, getting to these sites will be problematical. A nearly suggested a trip to Italica myself, but (disgracefully) I've not yet got there myself so I was interested to read Jorge's recommendations. Similarly, I was interested to read about Scops Owl in Seville as this is one of the few birds my wife would like to see, but I've completely failed to show her!

Finally, may just once more congratulate Jorge on his book and say how delighted I am to see him posting here,

I found it pretty easy to hitch from Seville to the El Rocio part of Coto Donana and back, and if you are a couple it may be even easier. This may be worth a try if you are unable to find public transport to anywhere else out of town that you fancy visiting.

Larry Wheatland said:

I found it pretty easy to hitch from Seville to the El Rocio part of Coto Donana and back, and if you are a couple it may be even easier. This may be worth a try if you are unable to find public transport to anywhere else out of town that you fancy visiting.

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Larry points an interesting option, going from Sevilla by bus to the main Rocío marsh, where you could also have a rewarding birding experience (or not if a local feast is held there). Have in mind that one way travel time is 1 hour and a half (3 hours return).

Salu2
Jorge

Hi, sorry for the late reply - I've been a little ill this week so a bit distracted.

My copy of "Birds of Southern and Western Spain" arrived the other day so I've been poring over that for ideas. I'm still looking out for a copy of Jorge's book - the £22 on Amazon is a bit more than I can afford on my limited income unfortunatly, but if I can find a cheap copy I'd be very interested in that too.

At the minute I'm just trying to pencil in some places to go - the Cathedral is a definite, and Italica is quite likely, plus a few of other smaller sites you mentioned, but trying to fit the balance so that, in my girlfriends words "this doesn't turn into just a birding holiday and I have to kill you" .

Given the area, I would definitly like to get to a wetland at some point, particularly to try and see some flamingos, storks and waders, and currently, my options would seem to be either El Rocio, somehow get to here although I haven't been able to work out if any public transport goes particularly near there, and while I've happily done 16 mile round walks before, I don't think that would win me any brownie points. The third option would seem to be to walk along the side of the Guadilquivir from Puebla del Rio and hope for the best, as that seems the least reliable option for seeing the flamingos (which I reason would be one of the more interesting birds to see for a non-birder). The forth option would perhaps be get a train to Huelva and try my luck in the area around there for a day?

At the minute my "target list without being overly abitious" stands at:
Flamingo, White Stork, Spotless Starling, Azure Winged Magpie, Penduline Tit, Short-toed treecreeper, Black Winged Stilt, Lesser Kestrel, Griffon Vulture, Serin, Cirl Bunting, Cattle Egret and whatever swifts/swallows/martins are still about.

I'd obviously like to see more, but it depends what I can find in whatever excursions we end up doing.

Actually one other species which I'd be particularly interested in knowing about is Hoopoe - the book suggests "significant numbers Winter in Donana" - is this significant enough numbers that I'd be likely to see one, or just significant in conservation terms?

Thanks again for all this help!

Definitely a great option - by bus to El Rocio, I am sure your girlfriend would love to see this unique and beautiful small town/very large village and its environs - its full of interest and looks like stepping back in time with its sandy streets and horses etc. There are many nice bars and restaurants and El Rocio is right on the edge of the superb Madre de las Marismas (Mother of the Marshes!). Even if it has not rained by November there should be lots of waterbirds. Just 1 km from El Rocio you have the lagoon system of La Rocina (always with water) and its lovely wet and dry woodlands. There is a superb boardwalk trail covering 5 or 6 hides and you will see lots - its also a very charming area and its free entrance. So long as you get an early bus and get the last bus home you will have plenty of time and 70-80 species will be possible.

Best of luck

I would agree that El Rocio should get you everything you want to see, Get a Damas bus from the bus station at Plaza del Armas. You can find prices and times at www.damas-sa.es, if you have problems understanding the spanish, drop me a line, and ill copy the timetable for you. I had a quick look, a single is €5.58 so a return should be less than €10 each, and the first bus leaves at 8am, gets to El Rocio at 9.35.

You dont have to walk far once there, the reeds at the back of the Toruno Hotel hold everything, including lots of Penduline Tits, but as Simon says, La Rocina is worth a look, great for Crested Tit, Dartfors warbler, etc etc, as well as the bridge at the south western end of the marisma, especially in the afternoon as the sun will be behind you. It is worth walking east into the dehesa too, i would 99.9% guarantee Hoopoe there, as well as possible Spanish Imperial Eagle and Black shouldered Kite.

Thanks for the help! El Rocio it is I think - if I did manage 60 birds with half of them being things not found or rare in Britain, thats the potential for my entire life list to increase by about a 6th!

Stephen: Could I possibly take you on on that translation offer, at least to confirm that I've found the right info - I'm afraid that I'm terrible enough at languages I have been taught, let alone ones I haven't. It doesn't help that the "english" button at the bottom of the page doesn't do anything and it's all images so I can't run it through a translator...

I make it departing Seville at 9.30, 3pm, 5pm and departing El Rocio at 10.15, 3.15 and 6.15? I can't see that 8am bus you mentioned? Also is that price the price it would be on the day, or the price if it is prebooked? Also, is it the bus to Matalascanas that goes to El Rocio?

Thanks again for all the help!

Assuming you can get there and it’s wet then El Rocio has to be the best bet. Looking through your target list and adding some of my own (and assuming conditions are optimum) I've worked out a ‘back-of-an-envelope’ % chances at seeing them. Hopefully this should help in deciding priorities. I've mainly considered them in light of your jaunt to El Rocio (but also elsewhere) would be as follows:-
Flamingo – 100% from the ‘passeo’ along the marshes at El Rocio
White Stork – 100% - unless you’re unlucky you should get them from the bus
Spoonbill – might well be a few about I’d imagine – 30%?
Glossy Ibis – massively increased in the area – 30%?
Purple Gallinule – should be a good possibility at El Rocio 40-50%?
Red-crested Pochard – should be a good possibility at El Rocio 60-70%? (Is White-headed Duck also possible?)
Spotless Starling – 40% if you’re not used to them as getting positive ID on distant birds could be the problem; generally not so tame as ‘our’ bird.
Azure Winged Magpie – if you get to El Acebuche 80-90%, at La Rocina 60%
Penduline Tit – 5% in the reedbeds by the bridge on the main road at La Rocina
Short-toed Treecreeper – 30-40% in pines more (60-70%) if you know the call
Black Winged Stilt – 100% from the ‘passeo’ and/or bridge
Kentish Plover – 60-70% if muddy margins aren’t too distant; 3-4,000 winter – more than the breeding population.
Lesser Kestrel – 60-70% in the evening around Seville cathedral tower (best if you can go up the tower as late as possible one evening/afternoon!)
Griffon Vulture – 20-30% I find that ‘over that side’ they can be elusive!
Black Kite – a few should still be about 10-20% if you get good enough views to exclude Marsh Harrier
Black-winged Kite – you’d need to be very, very lucky, but going home on the bus in the evening might give you a chance of this species!
Short-toed Eagle – I understand that 5-10 birds winter so it is possible!
Booted Eagle – a few (c20) should still be about 10%?
Spanish Imperial Eagle – should be an outside possibility at El Rocio 5%?
Spanish (Southern) Grey Shrike – 5%?
Serin – 80% but try the ‘castle’ gardens in Seville
Cirl Bunting – 5%? Cirl Buntings don’t seem occur regularly on the Coto (although ‘Italica’ might just creep into their range).
Cattle Egret – 100% you really should see these in fields en route.
Hoopoe – 10-20%? I’d guess that the sandier areas around El Rocio would be your best chance – several thousand winter!
Red-rumped Swallow – I’ve occasionally seen them ‘across the river’ in late Oct.
Crag Martin – as above
Bluethroat – widely winter on the marshes, but you’d need a good dollop of luck 5-10%? - it's worth looking hard in those reedbeds!
Calandra Lark – they occur widely and there’s a small chance (5%?) you might see them from the bus (look for big heavy dark winged lark).
Crested Lark – 100% esp. ‘Italica’ I’d guess.

Don't overdo it though and make sure your other half has such a good time that she wants to comback. Time your re-visit right, come to Jerez and I'd I'd happily take you round some of my favourite sites.

Just in case Stephen doesn't get a chance to reply, yes it is the bus to Matalascanas you want for El Rocio, and like you looking at the timetable seems 09.30 is the first bus, but I should check as soon as you can in Sevilla in case it's changing from summer to winter time. Fares seem to be 5.58 euros to El Rocio and 5.30 euros return to Sevilla.

I'm not sure where the bus stops at El Rocio but you need to walk down the road to the end of the village (not far) and you will see the lake/marismas on your left, take a walk along the small promenade beside the lake stopping frequently for a scan (a scope would be helpful if you have one), walk as far as you can along here and you should get a good selection of birds on the marsh and things like Spotless Starling, Serin, Black Redstart, Chiffchaff etc on the town side of your walk.
Birds regularly seen on the marsh in November include Flamingo, Spoonbill, Glossy Ibis, Purple Gallinule, Black-winged Stilt, Black-tailed Godwit, Little and Cattle Egret, occasional Great Egret, White Stork, loads of Coot with a few Red-knobbed in with them, (looking for a coot with a numbered white collar around its neck is your best chance of these), Water Pipit, Bluethroat near the parts wirh reeds, Marsh Harrier, Greylag Geese, large numbers of duck of several species. It's also one of those places where anything can and does turn up.

When you've finished this walk, and shown your girlfriend around the unique village walk back out to the main road and turn left, another good vantage point for the marsh is found on the left with better direction of light in the afternoon, either look from here now or walk a little bit further down the road to La Rocina reserve and come back to it.
If you go to La Rocina (free entry) call in at the info centre on your right and pick up a map then follow the boardwalks/paths to the various hides, you should get a selection of passerines in the trees/scrub that can include Short-toed Treecreeper, Crested Tit, Hawfinch, Azure-winged Magpie, Southern Grey Shrike, Crested Lark, Hoopoe plus waterside birds from the hides, also keep one eye on the sky for raptors.

It's a great area with excellent birding but the day seems to go very quickly so i should go for the species you want to see most and can be seen most easily, ie those out in the open.

cheers

Alexjh1 said:

At the minute my "target list without being overly abitious" stands at:
Flamingo, White Stork, Spotless Starling, Azure Winged Magpie, Penduline Tit, Short-toed treecreeper, Black Winged Stilt, Lesser Kestrel, Griffon Vulture, Serin, Cirl Bunting, Cattle Egret and whatever swifts/swallows/martins are still about.

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Hi again Alexjh,
SEO/Birdlife (Birdlife partner in Spain), has a new Birding Centre at El Rocío village, just by the reeds close to Toruño Hotel. They should have there scopes to hire or public use ones free to use. they could also give you up-to-date info about some of the birds you want to see. The autumn is being warm -even hot- and very dry, so birds distribution is different being scattered across the territory.
Saludos. Jorge

Of your targets the only unlikely ones are Cirl Bunting, Lesser Kestrel and Griffon Vulture (this last one can be seen by scanning the skies to the east from El Rocio on occasions). Its really worth learning Penduline Tit's call . a very sweet and high pitched seeeeee with a slight downward inflection - listen by El Rocio where there are reed patches - between Hotlel Toruño and the SEO centre - they are regular winter visitor there. Hopefully some rain will fall before you come - if it does you should see more. La Rocina pine woods are great for the ST Treecreeper, AW Magpie and Crested Tit and as Stephen said Dartford Warblers (and IB Grey Shrike) in the lower scrub when you come out of the woods - just follow the boardwalks (which cover maybe 3kms). La Rocina is an enchanting walk for anybody by the way ;-) You should get a Hoopoe or two almost anywhere on El Rocio's outskirts and probably Red-rumped Swallow.

Alexjh1 said:

At the minute my "target list without being overly abitious" stands at:
Flamingo, White Stork, Spotless Starling, Azure Winged Magpie, Penduline Tit, Short-toed treecreeper, Black Winged Stilt, Lesser Kestrel, Griffon Vulture, Serin, Cirl Bunting, Cattle Egret and whatever swifts/swallows/martins are still about.

I'd obviously like to see more, but it depends what I can find in whatever excursions we end up doing.

Actually one other species which I'd be particularly interested in knowing about is Hoopoe - the book suggests "significant numbers Winter in Donana" - is this significant enough numbers that I'd be likely to see one, or just significant in conservation terms?

Thanks again for all this help!

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al-Natural said:

Hi again Alexjh,
SEO/Birdlife (Birdlife partner in Spain), has a new Birding Centre at El Rocío village, just by the reeds close to Toruño Hotel. They should have there scopes to hire or public use ones free to use. they could also give you up-to-date info about some of the birds you want to see. The autumn is being warm -even hot- and very dry, so birds distribution is different being scattered across the territory.
Saludos. Jorge

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Hola Jorge,

Great news about the new centre at El Rocio, been a lot of disturbance in the area on my last two annual visits so hopefully things will settle down now and get the birds back there.

All that's needed now is some rain

Good birding

John

john-henry said:

Hola Jorge,

Great news about the new centre at El Rocio, been a lot of disturbance in the area on my last two annual visits so hopefully things will settle down now and get the birds back there.

All that's needed now is some rain

Good birding

John

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Hi John,
Yes, the new SEO facilities are working now and open to the public. Unfortunately the area is now surrounded with tamarisks due to the sand and sediments driven by the river to the marsh. But fortunately, as you say, the spot is still now.
Saludos

Jorge

Pity you cannot afford a half day trip at Coto Donana / El Rocio. I know that takes the fun away but you see so much that is easy to miss. If you dont , you will still have a great time.

I think everything is pretty much decided upon now in terms of birds - probably going to do El Rocio on the first full day there weather permitting, and then after that we will be sticking to Seville I think, which will be less abotu the birds but Italica and Seville Cathedral are likely and a definite respectively.

What I'm actually going to take advantage of is it turns out some of my neighbours are there this week for birdwatching purposes, so I'm going to gather a bit of intelligence from them between the time they return and I head off.

Thanks for the help everyone - when I get back I'll be sure to write up a bit of what I saw with some of my undoubtedly numerous photographs. Thanks again!