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CA question in layman's term (1 Viewer)

tpcollins

Well-known member
I understand what chromatic aberration is, and both fluorite glass and a longer focal length reduce it. I have a Zeiss Victory 8x42 T*FL which has fluorite glass and a Leica 8x20 Ultravid (not sure if it is fluorite or not).

During a midsize binocular search last summer, I tried out about 6 different pairs including a Zen Ray 7x36 EDII and a Leupold 8x32 Gold Ring non-HD. These two were the best but there were several things with the Zen Ray that I didn't like - especially it's long length. Although it did have a bit more "pop" in the center of the view, I went with the Leupold because of it's ergonomics, size, quality of workmanship, bla bla, whatever, (mainly just mad at the Zen Ray).

So could one assume if a binocular is not an alpha brand that uses fluorite glass, and isn't overly long in length, that it would have to have some CA or are there other factors as well? Thanks.
 
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tp,

Just to point out a couple of things... the "fl" you often seen referred to in advertising/literature when it comes to binoculars is actually referring to fluoride or extra low dispersion glass. "Fluorite" actually isn't a glass and isn't utilized in any consumer binoculars that I am aware of....and, actually, there are only one or two scopes on the market that utilize it.

Just wanted to avoid further confusion for anyone reading this thread who isn't necessarily an optics nut like the rest of us.

To answer your question, my experiences tells me that there are other factors besides the two you listed which influence how much of any given type of CA is present in the image. For example, I just picked up a non-ED, non-phase coated roof prism binocular with an extremely short overall design. I have not "pressed" the binocular to see if I could get CA to be produced but under regular use I have yet to detect a great deal of it.

Just my two cents.
 
One thing that's "clear" from my own experience with ED binoculars and from reading dozens of posts by others is that just because a binocular has ED glass do not expect another bin with the same configuration that also has ED glass to have the same level of CA control. Other factors such as focal length and the quality of the other glass elements enter into the "equation".

So some bins with ED glass control CA better than others regardless if they call it FL, HD, or ED.

I've also noticed with the two ED bins I've used in the past two years both show the best CA control slightly above the center rather than right at the center. Not sure if this is just a coincidence (two different brands, two very different price points, two different sized objectives, and 7x and 10x, respectively), or if it has to do with my eyes.

I'm glad you used the word "pop" to describe the EDII view. ED glass does more than just control CA, by greatly reducing the prismatic scattering of colors, it provides sharper, brighter views that "pop".

Why are you "mad" at Zen Ray?

Brock
 
Why are you "mad" at Zen Ray?

I follow several hunting forums and was really interested in the Zen Ray due to the great reviews. But when I saw the 7x36 EDII in person, I was immediately turned off. To me it had that obvious "Made in China" look to it. It was longer than what I thought it needed to be. The focus wheel was very sloppy - there was a lot of play in either direction before it changed the focus. The FoV was advertized at something over 480' but there was an significant amout of the outer view that was unusable. A tree or telephone pole at the edge of the view had a terrible bow in it - been better to advertise only 400' with it all being usuable. Lastly, it appeared the binoc was made mostly of plastic so in order to have any rigid strength, those parts had to be made thicker - and gaudy looking.

When I returned them to Zen Ray, Charles said there was "something wrong with them that wasn't up to their specifications" - can't remember what it was. I would have thought he'd would have sent me another one to try but since they were still too long with that china look to them, I'm sort of glad he didn't. I really love my Gold Rings though.
 
I don't think binocular length plays a significant role in controlling CA. Focal length would need to increase ~4x to have mitigating affects. More likely, a SLIGHTLY longer focal length helps mitigate the other image damaging aberrations in a fast refracting lens system, spherical aberration and astigmatism.

Aperture and magnification are much more relevant factors for the kind longitudinal CA and spherochomatism that plagues fast refractive optics. Larger apertures and higher magnifications increase the chance longitudinal CA will be visible. Longitudinal CA is best recognized by objects in the unfocused foreground and background showing green and purple edges. The colors do not swap positions when you tilt the binocular or look around the FoV. Longitudinal CA at sub-15x magnifications of focused objects in the center of the FoV may not be visible (though it is still there albeit ever so slightly). This is why a well made non-ED binocular can still give nice views.

Lateral CA, the type most likely seen and reported on with handheld binoculars, is determined by eye position, exit pupil size and the AFoV. It is best recognized by the purple and green outlines of high contrast, clearly defined objects swapping positions as you tilt the binocular or move you eye around the FoV.

It is important to remember that neither longitudinal or lateral color occur in isolation and most lens systems exhibit both simultaneously. Better control of all types of chromatic errors is a benefit of ED glass (due to the extra degrees of freedom it allows in the figure) and why images can be slightly sharper with better contrast and saturation, i.e. "pop", when ED glass is used as more of the white light spectrum is in focus across the FoV.
 
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I don't think binocular length plays a significant role in controlling CA. Focal length would need to increase ~4x to have mitigating affects. More likely, a SLIGHTLY longer focal length helps mitigate the other image damaging aberrations in a fast refracting lens system, spherical aberration and astigmatism.

Aperture and magnification are much more relevant factors for the kind longitudinal CA and spherochomatism that plagues fast refractive optics. Larger apertures and higher magnifications increase the chance longitudinal CA will be visible. Longitudinal CA is best recognized by objects in the unfocused foreground and background showing green and purple edges. The colors do not swap positions when you tilt the binocular or look around the FoV. Longitudinal CA at sub-15x magnifications of focused objects in the center of the FoV may not be visible (though it is still there albeit ever so slightly). This is why a well made non-ED binocular can still give nice views.

Lateral CA, the type most likely seen and reported on with handheld binoculars, is determined by eye position, exit pupil size and the AFoV. It is best recognized by the purple and green outlines of high contrast, clearly defined objects swapping positions as you tilt the binocular or move you eye around the FoV.

It is important to remember that neither longitudinal or lateral color occur in isolation and most lens systems exhibit both simultaneously. Better control of all types of chromatic errors is a benefit of ED glass (due to the extra degrees of freedom it allows in the figure) and why images can be slightly sharper with better contrast and saturation, i.e. "pop", when ED glass is used as more of the white light spectrum is in focus across the FoV.

Well said! There you go, TP. Your answer in layman's terms. You just need to use your Little Orphan Annie Decoder Ring. :)

What I find interesting is that sometimes what is "supposed to be" - like the 4x FL rule for reducing CA - doesn't hold up in real world situations even though it might look good on paper. In every instance where I've tried an 8x32 and 8x42 in the same series of (non-ED) bins, the 8x32 showed more CA.

Same difference with two 8x midsized bins with different FLs. The 8x30 EII shows more CA than the 8x32 SE even though they are mooreorless the same configuration.

Here's what Henry had to say about this (I think he had the 4x FL rule in back of his mind when he wrote this but his eyes were telling him differently, just a guess):

"The optical trade offs (of the 8x30 EII) compared to the SE are reduced eye relief from the shorter focal length eyepiece needed to produce the same magnification and higher levels of chromatic and spherical aberrations from the lower focal ratio objective (which may or may not actually be visible at 8X)."

Oh, it is, Henry, it is. At least for me it is. I very much like the 8x30 EII despite it showing more CA than the 8x32 SE in high contrast situations. But when viewing a bird against a bright, cloudy sky, the ZR 7x36 EDII does a better job than both of them in reducing CA to a minimum, with its double blow of lower magnification and ED glass. OTOH, it has more pincushion than both of the Nikons put together.

Like Roseanne Roseannadanna used to say: Well, it just goes to show you, it's always something--if it ain't one thing, it's another.

Here's Henry's in-depth review of the 8x30 EII from which I excerpted the above quote:

http://www.birdforum.net/archive/index.php/t-38202

Brock
 
What I find interesting is that sometimes what is "supposed to be" - like the 4x FL rule for reducing CA - doesn't hold up in real world situations even though it might look good on paper. In every instance where I've tried an 8x32 and 8x42 in the same series of (non-ED) bins, the 8x32 showed more CA.

Same difference with two 8x midsized bins with different FLs. The 8x30 EII shows more CA than the 8x32 SE even though they are mooreorless the same configuration.

Brock, sorry if you lost your Little Orphan Annie Decoder Ring. Let me simplify.

Smaller exit pupil and/or larger AFoV = more easily visible lateral color.

Got it now?
 
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