Farnboro John
Well-known member
What four groups?
I know only 3
One was split but it was probably premature.....
John
What four groups?
I know only 3
Here's something for anyone out there who had a Siberian Chiffchaff bounced because it didn't call!..
http://portlandbirdobs.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/21st-july.html
Scroll down past the initial photos. Very interesting,
Peter
Discussion at Surfbirds: Portland tristis Chiffchaff.Here's something for anyone out there who had a Siberian Chiffchaff bounced because it didn't call!..
http://portlandbirdobs.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/21st-july.html
Scroll down past the initial photos.
With a ''dynamic'' species like Chiff Chaff across it's range supporting a ''number'' of races, to include ''Classic'' tristis as being markedly different from P.abietnus/collybita e.g. not just cosmetically, but also in ''song'', however still retaining the very similar overlapping ''contact'' calls.
Might this suggest that tristis (if it hasn't already?) reached ''virtual'' independence from the other races (in as much as being a different species), but as of yet...by virtue of it's usage regarding the ''same'' contact calls, demonstrates a ''still on-going ability'' to reproduce with it's racial congeners, until it evolves a different ''contact call'', whereby it would have made the ''full'' biological split?
Or maybe some Chiffchaffs, like Mallards and some humans, will shag anything?
John
John, are you insinuating that some Chiffchaffs have a perverse tendency to sow their oats widely, rather than separating the (Siberian) wheat from the Chaff?Or maybe some Chiffchaffs, like Mallards and some humans, will shag anything?
John, are you insinuating that some Chiffchaffs have a perverse tendency to sow their oats widely, rather than separating the (Siberian) wheat from the Chaff?
Redwing?There was a Siberian Chiffchaff singing on my local patch this morning. It seems quite odd that tristis is still included in collybita in 2021, given the dramatically different song and current vogue for splitting. I wonder if there there any other Palearctic species with comparably distinct vocalisations among subspecies?
We'd both have several new species then I reckon...when is a dialect a new species indicator...?Redwing?
When the dialect is determined by a genetic factor rather than learned from parents? It seems to be reasonably certain the genetic factors determine voice in Owls but not necessarily in passerines.We'd both have several new species then I reckon...when is a dialect a new species indicator...?
Well I can't argue against any of these points! However, regarding human v bird perception of distinctiveness of traits, isn't that applicable to the entire discipline of taxonomy?! We judge differences in morphology, plumage and vocalisations through human eyes and ears.It's very hard to say exactly what traits of the song (or any other sexually selected trait for that matter) are most important in mate choice though. To our ears, they sound distinctive. To a female Chiffchaff, those differences might not be as important as (say) tempo, duration, pitch. IIRC, playback experiments (with the usual caveats applied to these) elicited similar responses, regardless of subspecies. Furthermore, there is extensive an ongoing introgression between "Common" and "Siberian" populations and vocal and plumage differences do not match well in this broad hybrid zone. Interestingly, there doesn't seem to be much evidence of ongoing introgression between sympatric populations of Common/Iberian or Common/Mountain Chiffchaffs.