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Pied Wagtail (White) (2 Viewers)

Paul_Gower

Well-known member
I'm confused about wagtails!

I used to think the black/grey/white jobs were pied wagtails. When a Dutch friend pointed to a pied and called it a white I assumed this was just a Dutch name for it. Then I started seeing reports on web sites of white wagtails, particularly around London reservoirs. My Collins field guide and the list in my (Jeff's) birding data base only refer to Pied W. (White), but my very old Collins guide includes pied and white under one section, but itemises the differences between the pied and white forms.

Can anyone clarify the situation?

Thanks,

Paul
 
Pied and White Wagatils are two subspecies of Motacilla Alba. White Wagtails are the European subspecies (and also the nominate) and are called Motacilla alba alba. These occur on passage down the east coast from across europe during spring and throughout the uk (but often on the west coast) on the way to Iceland also. Pied Wagtails (Motacilla alba yarelli) are the British subspecies that breeds throughout the uk but rarely occurs elsewhere. Occasionally a pair of White Wagtails will stop and breed in the UK.
 
White Wags are far paler and have slate grey backs. Saw White Wag today, obviously completely different species. Don't understand why they are lumped with Pied Wag, because there are separated species which are far more alike than Pied an White Wags.
 
Dwayne, its because they interbreed freely producing fertile young and are differentiated purely by where they occur. Theey share the same niche just in different places. Also they can be very similiar, especially juvenile birds.
 
Hotspur said:
Dwayne, its because they interbreed freely producing fertile young and are differentiated purely by where they occur. Theey share the same niche just in different places. Also they can be very similiar, especially juvenile birds.

So if white and pied interbreed and produce fertile young, are there lots of hybrids around? And if the young are fertile, does that mean there are half-breed, quarter-breed etc? Doesn't this get confusing?

Paul
 
No, because they are seperate geographically in their breeding sites with pieds breeding only in Britain (they are resident largely) and White Wagtails breeding in the rest of Europe. These are often migratory. In this way they are rarely in the same places during breeding season, with only a very few White Wagtails breeding in britain either with a white or pied mate. As this is rare it has little impact on the gene pool and there are very few (but some) hybrids kicking about. Very unlikely to see one of these. Also to confuse the issue, juvenile Pied Wagtails can look like white wagtails but with less definition to their plumage on the back.
 
Agree with everything James has said.

A pure pair of White Wagtails bred successfully in Cley village a few years ago - this was the first breeding record for Norfolk, although the odd bird hybridizes most years.

David
 
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight! i kind of see the point. However earlier on i saw a stunning male White Wag and it was quite clear that it was not pied, in fact it was completely differrent, every aspect of the plumage you look for on male White Wags was present. So, i do not see why they cannot be separated, anyway who am i to dictate what the powers that be decide, as you say Hotspur, their is reasons why they are lumped.

Dan
 
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