Grey-backed Camaroptera (1 Viewer)

My guide shows this bird with a black beak, my image shows an orange beak.

Is my identification correct?

My SASOL guide has a speci Camaroptera brevicaudata (Grey-backed Camaroptera). The database does not, I assume it would be C. brachyura on the database. (they look very simular in my guide - green as apposed to grey back).

Image was shot at Rust de Winter, 80km North of Pretoria.

the pic is Grey-backed I think

Camaroptera brevicaudata - grey back and throat as opposed to green back and white throat of C. brachyura

Tim Allwood said:

the pic is Grey-backed I think

Camaroptera brevicaudata - grey back and throat as opposed to green back and white throat of C. brachyura

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If the orange beak is OK, it would fit. The BF database does not have this speci, so what I need to know is from which speci it was split, the database shows three possible speci's, my guide only lists two, i dont know what the other two speci's look like.

The bird doesn't seem to have an orange bill. It looks mostly dark with a bit of yellow at the corners and maybe a slight bit underneath (at least on my moniter). But the lighting seems a bit tricky, too.

Yes, that's a Grey-backed. As far as I know, Rust de Winter is outside the range of Green-backed. Also, Green-backed normally shows a more olive-green mantle & back (hence they appear concolor with the wings). Normally the underparts of Green-backed are paler than in Grey-backed, but that isn't a consistent feature. The above is made somewhat harder by the fact that the Grey-backed in South Africa has a breeding and a non-breeding plumage; non-breeding having a less obvious grey mantle, hence even closer to Green-backed. Green-backed only has one plumage (no distinction between breeding and non-breeding). Both these species normally show a rather dark bill, but sometimes with a bit of orang(ish) at the gape. I don't know if juveniles of either species can show an all orange-yellow bill, but adults never do (if your book depicts something else, it's wrong!). Anyway, a Grey-backed on the photo...

These two have often been considered as being nothing but sub-species of ONE species. They appear to integrate at several localities, however, at other localities the two live side by side, with no apparent interbreeding going on! If treated as one species, they would have the scientific name of C. brachyura (i.e. Grey-backed being a sub-species of Green-backed). If treated as two species Green-backed is C. brachyura, and Grey-backed is C. brevicaudata.

Thank you for your execelent reply.

The SOSAL guide does not show orange on the beak at all, thats why I was worried. I will post it for the galary under C. brachyura with "Camaroptera brevicaudata (Grey-backed Camaroptera)" in the notes section.

Leon,
maybe a female :Jan-Groentjie?(only know the Afrikaans name....)

Sarel said:

Leon,
maybe a female :Jan-Groentjie?(only know the Afrikaans name....)

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That would be the Malchite Sunbird.

After seeing more of this speci I still believe it to be a
Grey-backed Camaroptera (GrysrugKweKwevoel in Afrikaans)

I have been fortunate to see some of the Green-backed Camaropera close to Port Alfred as well. They sound like small kittens calling.

Thank you for taking the trouble replying to same of my questions. The one that still really puzzles me is the one at this link http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=20251

Any ideas?

"Thank you for taking the trouble replying to same of my questions. The one that still really puzzles me is the one at this link http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=20251"

I still think that they are most likely to be juvenile Orange-breasted Waxbills but I too would welcome more comments on this. The thread seems to have died.

The adults often breed in the old nests of Red Bishops. Were there any Red Bishops, or adult Orange-breasted Waxbills at the site you photographed these?

Pete

Leon,
Sorry..........i was thinking wrong then. What i wanted to write there was: Geelborskleinjantjie(Yellow breasted Apalis ), and then a juvelene(look at its bill)

Sorry for the wrong name................silly to give that poor little bird a totally different nam!sunbird............

baybe this helps you?

Sarel said:

Sorry..........i was thinking wrong then. What i wanted to write there was: Geelborskleinjantjie(Yellow breasted Apalis ), and then a juvelene(look at its bill)

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Hi Sarel,

I do understand your thoughts, however, juv. Yellow-breasted Apalis looks somewhat different. They actually look more like the Green-backed Camaroptera with a greenish mantle & hindneck. They also have a longer, more slender jizz. Finally, they - already as juv's - show an eye-ring, though not as clear red as in ad. The correct ID was given previously: Grey-backed Camaroptera.