Scottish Independence (1 Viewer)

djludlow said:

An English does have certain simplicity but looking at BUBO not many birders keep one . How many would there be over 500 ?

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I would lose 17 by excluding Scotland, bringing me down to 517. To anticipate more provincial unrest, Wales-only ticks: Black Scoter, Black Lark, Killdeer, Sooty Tern, Bridled Tern, Glaucous-winged Gull and Indigo Bunting. Calandra Lark only on Isle of Man.

Still over 500.

Doesn't matter to me as I keep a British Isles list which is unaffected by politics.

John

Farnboro John said:

I would lose 17 by excluding Scotland, bringing me down to 517. To anticipate more provincial unrest, Wales-only ticks: Black Scoter, Black Lark, Killdeer, Sooty Tern, Bridled Tern, Glaucous-winged Gull and Indigo Bunting. Calandra Lark only on Isle of Man.

Still over 500.

Doesn't matter to me as I keep a British Isles list which is unaffected by politics.

John

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509 for England then if my maths is correct , that is good going , I doubt that many could better that.

AlfArbuthnot said:

But never mind all this - the real question is what the hell is Springwatch/Autumnwatch going to do?!

If I don't have to see yet another Red Deer rut, or Gordon Buchanan cooing over a yet another bloody Otter on some windswept harbour, I think I'd back a Yes vote too.

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Plenty of opportunity for them to film Red Deer (e.g. Quantocks, Somerset) and Otters (e.g. Northumberland) in England :king:

wolfbirder said:

I think there will be a yes vote

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I'm not so sure myself. The opinion polls over the past few days have ranged from 47%-51% Yes, all within margin of error of an even split but still suggesting a narrow no lead. There are still plenty of people who will believe all the nonsense about economic collapse that seems prevalent on this thread and which the BBC et al are spewing constantly.

The big unknown is the large number of previously disenfranchised voters that are expected to turn out. They are unlikely to be represented in opinion polls and perhaps unlikely to support the status quo.

Farnboro John said:

To anticipate more provincial unrest, Wales-only ticks: .... Bridled Tern, ...

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C'mon, where've you been the last two summers! Not the Farnes, that's for sure! :-O

Could've got Glaucous-winged Gull down on Teesside, too, it wasn't that difficult :t:

Oh, and we had an Black Scoter here too, up at Bamburgh (yes, that's the English side of the border )

Birdspotter said:

Might i point out to you that The Bank of Scotland, Royal Bank and Clydesdale Banks all print their own currency and have done so for centurys,

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Scotland prints money on licence from the bank of England. They are not legal tender even in Scotland. It is already a currency under permissive let, and after a yes vote the most valuable thing about a Scottish pound will be the heat generated from its combustion!

fugl said:

Here's what Paul Krugman has to say about the economic effects of Scottish independence. I have a lot of respect for Krugman's opinions in general but on this I hope he's wrong.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/08/o...l?smprod=nytcore-ipad&smid=nytcore-ipad-share

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No sensible doubt as to whether he is right or wrong - he is clearly right. The interesting factor will be the extent to which the larger economic interests based in Scotland including RBS (bullied into silence by the SNP to date) break that silence now that a 'yes' vote appears a realistic possibility and the extent to which the majority of the population are prepared to be totally reckless about their financial futures.

As to conservation, no time for any of the political parties - though Alex Salmond is pretty special! - and the birds don't notice political boundaries so I'll continue to keep geographically defined lists.

All the best

halftwo said:

Scotland prints money on licence from the bank of England. They are not legal tender even in Scotland. It is already a currency under permissive let, and after a yes vote the most valuable thing about a Scottish pound will be the heat generated from its combustion!

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This your outlook? :eek!: :-O

Scotland makes up about 8% of the UK ( I think ) on population but has a fair number of financial institutions with a huge number of customers from the rest of the 92% of the UK. Why would they keep their accounts in a foreign country ? RBS and Lloyd's/HBOS owe the British taxpayer billions .
Meltdown within weeks.

cheshirebirder said:

Scotland makes up about 8% of the UK ( I think ) on population but has a fair number of financial institutions with a huge number of customers from the rest of the 92% of the UK. Why would they keep their accounts in a foreign country ? RBS and Lloyd's/HBOS owe the British taxpayer billions .
Meltdown within weeks.

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Except Scotland remains in the UK for at least 18 months after a yes vote. Plenty of time to sort out currency issues and ring-fence different parts of banks if necessary (as Santander do in the UK now).

djludlow said:

An English does have certain simplicity but looking at BUBO not many birders keep one . How many would there be over 500 ?

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No one...yet And at the present rate no one before the end of the decade

Capercaillie71 said:

Except Scotland remains in the UK for at least 18 months after a yes vote. Plenty of time to sort out currency issues and ring-fence different parts of banks if necessary (as Santander do in the UK now).

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Great, 18 months of uncertainty and argy-bargy, while the global markets and companies withhold investment, or take it elsewhere, and the pound plummets because of months of nobody knowing what the hell is going to happen. Higher cost of borrowing, less investment, and heaven help those wanting to get a mortgage or a business loan. Particularly people in Scotland, who wont know what currency they'll be taking it out in, or what the tax and interest rates might be like next year.

The 18 month negotiation will be very damaging for everyone. It would have been much better to have a solid plan to put to the people right now. Instead, the only plan on offer seems to be 'we'll try to arm-wrestle what we want out of them'. We might all go back into recession while that is going on, and depending on the outcome in 18 months time, and what business and markets make of it all, it might not be so easy to come out of it. Which means higher taxes and more cuts.

Capercaillie71 said:

Except Scotland remains in the UK for at least 18 months after a yes vote. Plenty of time to sort out currency issues and ring-fence different parts of banks if necessary (as Santander do in the UK now).

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You cannot dictate the manner in which English clients will treat Scottish financial institutions in the eventuality of a yes vote. As part of their normal marketing operations, they will be monitoring Google searches etc and Scottish Widows (by way of an example) will know how many daily searches there are saying 'is Scottish Widows safe independence' and will know that they will need to react to a yes vote by shifting a significant proportion of their business to England to protect themselves from losing the majority of their client base.

No axe to grind. Good luck! In the immediate term, it will be damaging to the English economy as well but no doubt as to the longer term economic outlook in Scotland.

The Scots I know south of the border high up within business are distraught as to what is likely to be the effect on their nation.

On the birding front it surprises me that no one is north of 500 for an English list.

All the best

Totting it up, I would expect some people - maybe half a dozen or so - to have seen over 500 species in England on a BOU basis but not by much.

All the best

Nutcracker said:

This your outlook? :eek!: :-O

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Brilliant!

I see that the banks are already drawing up abandonment plans.

AlfArbuthnot said:

It would have been much better to have a solid plan to put to the people right now.

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That was impossible because the UK government refused to pre-negotiate.

If you read beyond the pejorative headlines about financial doom on the BBC you find this:

Angus Grossart, chairman of merchant bank Noble Grossart, said that people should "not panic" following the decisions made by the two banks. He told the Financial Times that the impact of a Yes vote was "severely overstated".

And Mr Grossart, one of the most senior figures in Scotland's financial establishment, said people were "overreacting" to the threats of exodus of firms.

"I think it is getting out of hand," he told the Financial Times. "To hear some of the comments you almost expect people to be predicting a plague of locusts or mice next."

Meanwhile Scotland's largest fund manager's boss said an independent Scotland would be a huge success.

Martin Gilbert, chief executive of Aberdeen Asset Management said: "I think an independent Scotland would be a big success, but it is a secret ballot and I will abide by that.


"BBC economics editor Robert Peston said "Lloyds would move its legal home to its head office, which is already in London - and that's unlikely to have much impact on Scottish employment."

On a lighter note I wonder if all those tv adverts for banking and insurance will continue to utilise middle class Scottish voices (which is seen as trustworthy). I just can't imagine banking adverts or even call centres advocating the use of actors with broad Manc or Black Country accents . I can see it now when you make a call to order something, "give us you're 16 digit credit card number please " in a broad but dodgy Manc accent .

When something happens in the world, anything, somebody farts in Albania, the stork market crashes, people in other countries start predicticting the worst, and that market drops, by the next day, the rest of the worlds markets follow suit. It pure speculation and a means of making a fast buck. Its a totally potemkin system designed to appease shareholders. We have seen crashes in economies because banks were borrowing money they didn't own and local councils were investing tax payers money in dodgy overseas banks that crashed because the system allowed something that was not sustainable to happen. Have they learned from it? No, the banks were bailed out by the taxpayer and the investment bankers took boni from the bail out money. Not everyone likes the current system of finances where we are being held hostage by gurus in far flung places making predictions like Krugman et al. Scottish Banking used to be well respected and considered safe in prevoius years. Now they have sold up to the larger banks south of the border and all the profit now goes to the shareholders. Scotland is a socially thinking nation where people care about equality, fairness and the welfare state. England (especially London) is becoming more like America every day, with back door privatisation of the NHS and weve all seen the mess the railways are in post privatisation. Maybe the Scots who have stayed in Scotland, and some who have gone elsewhere to find work would welcome a change in the way things are done North of the Border. Want we don't need is people worried about the stocks and shares blaming us for their investment decisions if and when the markets crash becuse someone somewhere starts "speculation panic". Its all just another "legitimate" market strategy to make even more money when the markets recover.
As to lists, I have a British Isles list, so geographical and not political, so there will be no changes to my meager 120 species. (from 2 trips, one to Caithness and one to the West Country) My European list is at 270 , as a relatively new birder (4 years in), as my teachers kept telling me back in school, there is room for improvement!

Capercaillie71 said:

That was impossible because the UK government refused to pre-negotiate.

If you read beyond the pejorative headlines about financial doom on the BBC you find this:

Angus Grossart, chairman of merchant bank Noble Grossart, said that people should "not panic" following the decisions made by the two banks. He told the Financial Times that the impact of a Yes vote was "severely overstated".

And Mr Grossart, one of the most senior figures in Scotland's financial establishment, said people were "overreacting" to the threats of exodus of firms.

"I think it is getting out of hand," he told the Financial Times. "To hear some of the comments you almost expect people to be predicting a plague of locusts or mice next."

Meanwhile Scotland's largest fund manager's boss said an independent Scotland would be a huge success.

Martin Gilbert, chief executive of Aberdeen Asset Management said: "I think an independent Scotland would be a big success, but it is a secret ballot and I will abide by that.


"BBC economics editor Robert Peston said "Lloyds would move its legal home to its head office, which is already in London - and that's unlikely to have much impact on Scottish employment."

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And seeing what a success BofS and RBS made of things I am sure you can fully trust the words of your Scottish Bankers and Fund Managers

As the Immortal Bard wrote

We're bought and sold for English gold-
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!