Is Bird Ringing/Banding Cruel? (1 Viewer)

I would really like to start bird rining , but I have just found out some stuff that suggests that bird ringing is cruel. I know it might be a bit scary for the bird ,being caught in a net and handled , but its very quick ,as much has been done to prevent fear , the ringers are highly trained and its for ornithology and the conservation of our birds , not for ourselves.

But what I found out was that some birds die when ringing , and get caught it mist nets with out being noticed. At first I thought these where 'one offs' , but people said it was commen for birds to die/be badly injured in the process of ringing (there was this upsetting image of a dead dipper in a mist net). Is this true? I wasn't sure wether thay where makeing this up , so I thought if I ask some actual ringers as they will know the truth.

I'm not trying to start a fight or anything i'm just asking and thought it would be best to ask some actual ringers. I'm really into Ornithology and always thought that ringing (if done correctly) is a great thing that helps up conserve birds and learn more about them.|=)|

I no longer ring , but for a trained ringer losses are very small and to suggst they are common place is rubbish. I used to ring around 4,000 birds a year and might lose 2 or 3 birds , mainly from sparrowhawks taking them in the net. Ringing is a vital conservation tool and the information gained may well save far more birds than are ever lost. A good ringer evaluates where and when he is ringing, taking into account the weather, the number of birds he expects to catch , the help he may have , uses a managable number of nets, if there is any risk from members of the public or predators and the time needed to process the birds. The welfare of the birds must come first ringing and processing second.

Thanks! I think the websites were feeding people false information because they said that birds die in most ringing sessions and things like that. Glad I asked the ringer and got the truth.

I've ringed in UK and Australia ("banding" here), over 8000 birds, mist nets, cannon netting and other methods and I'd agree with Tideliner. It's very rare for casualties to be recorded. The level of skill required is well monitored with the ringing organisations in both countries, and most of the ringers I've worked with are highly professional. Some folk just don't have the awareness or coordination, and remain trainees, supervised.

Some species are more prone to problems, and it's always a big deal when a bird dies, I've never seen this happen due to carelessness. I remember a Blue Tit killing a Reed Warbler in the net and a raptor taking advantage of a trapped bird too. This always bothers me, but then I think of all the roadkill casualties, window strikes etc and think that if the outcomes of the study are valuable enough (usually are) then this must be why it's accepted by the ringing organisations. I've seen more humans get injured by the birds than vice versa.

Also, I've just done a quick search for RSPCA (cruelty to animals) and ringing and can find no issues or relevant articles here. The fact that we had returning Reed Warblers for many years at our site, after flying to Africa and back many times, suggests a lot. Some individuals returned to be trapped in the same net at the same site on the same weekend every year. A Water Rail I ringed trapped itself on a weekly basis in the same way at the same place for a food present, sometimes walking back into the trap on the same day. It's weight suggested it wasn't starving at all, just getting fat and not objecting to being handled.

I stopped banding with one chap here, an ecologist who didn't appreciate me being more experienced than him, as I was trying to get the equivalent permit in Aus, as I had in UK. Despite my experience, he deliberately held me back from "his territory", and wouldn't support me, a strange attribute, but you get all sorts. He's the worst bander I've met, and still didn't have many accidents, despite the damaged mist nets he never fixed (a hazard to birds). It turns out he also has a conflict of interests as I was stepping on his toes by starting a wildlife tour business, which he wanted to do (and since has). So I'd be more concerned about the people you work with and their personal issues. Mostly a good sharing bunch though.

Birdgirl42

I ringed between 1969 and 1981, mostly mist netting, although small amounts of cannon netting, dazzle netting, a few pulli, and a small chardonneret trap, initially as a trainee for years and as a (reasonably) independent C ringer.There were casualties although my memory for 35 years ago is poor. However my 'own fault' fatalities were Greenfinch 1 (already sick, injured in net, injured by handling?), Sedge Warbler ( my fault in net) and a Swift 'flicked' by mist net (no reason to think subsequent extraction/ handling caused this). Finally a Cuckoo lost a couple of tail feathers on handling. I never saw death or injuries due to time in nets, nor did I ever see/experience mortalities due to predators, mammalian nor raptor. I'm sure my experiences would typical. So, say one in several thousand.
Russ

Thanks for all the info , i'm glad I found out the truth from some actual ringers!I agree that ringing is important and helps birds more than hurting them and now understand that it is very rare for a bird to be killed/hurt in the proccess of ringing

Birdgirl42 said:

I would really like to start bird rining , but I have just found out some stuff that suggests that bird ringing is cruel. I know it might be a bit scary for the bird ,being caught in a net and handled , but its very quick ,as much has been done to prevent fear , the ringers are highly trained and its for ornithology and the conservation of our birds , not for ourselves.

But what I found out was that some birds die when ringing , and get caught it mist nets with out being noticed. At first I thought these where 'one offs' , but people said it was commen for birds to die/be badly injured in the process of ringing (there was this upsetting image of a dead dipper in a mist net). Is this true? I wasn't sure wether thay where makeing this up , so I thought if I ask some actual ringers as they will know the truth.

I'm not trying to start a fight or anything i'm just asking and thought it would be best to ask some actual ringers. I'm really into Ornithology and always thought that ringing (if done correctly) is a great thing that helps up conserve birds and learn more about them.|=)|

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If this is true for any ringers then they shouldn't be doing it! As others have said, with proper training, casualties are rare. During most season-long projects that I've worked on, we've lost no more than a 1-2 birds per 1000, sometimes none at all. It's always sad when it happens though, no matter how infrequently.

Could someone explain the reasons for trapping. The reason given is that this knowledge is used to benefit the birds. I would like to be given some real info as to just how this knowledge is actually put to use.

Den

ovenbird43 said:

If this is true for any ringers then they shouldn't be doing it! As others have said, with proper training, casualties are rare. During most season-long projects that I've worked on, we've lost no more than a 1-2 birds per 1000, sometimes none at all. It's always sad when it happens though, no matter how infrequently.

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This.

poledark said:

Could someone explain the reasons for trapping. The reason given is that this knowledge is used to benefit the birds. I would like to be given some real info as to just how this knowledge is actually put to use.
Den

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I encourage you to look into anything in the "Research and Conservation" area of the Bird Studies Canada website, for a Nearctic perspective on this question.

Peter

Thanks for all the comments! I have visited my local ringing group many times since I started this thread , and I have seen how skilled the ringer are and how much they care for the birds. They said it is rare for birds to die , and it normally Sparrowhawks catching the birds in the net , but it is still very sad when a bird dies. I am volunteering with the ringing group now , and I would like to start training properly soon.

Awesome, welcome to ringing!

I have been a handful of times here. One Coal Tit died, maybe a bit of blood here and here, few ruffled feathers and a couple of birds that skulked away afterwards. In each case where the bird didn't react in a normal way notes were made. I'm sure this is common practice so somewhere there should be a database showing the results and actual figures/instances of problems...

rosbifs said:

maybe a bit of blood here and here,

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Usually human

https://twitter.com/Gav_NorthRon/status/609098857155309568/photo/1


:-O

Not sure exactly what you want to know but my local county Lancashire has a section at the end dedicated to ringing recoveries - two of the most interesting that I know are of a Kestrel ringed in East Lancashire being spotted in Morocco I think and a Peregrine also ringed in a nearby area as a chick now breeding in the East Midlands. They can learn a lot from birds via ringing.

poledark said:

Could someone explain the reasons for trapping. The reason given is that this knowledge is used to benefit the birds. I would like to be given some real info as to just how this knowledge is actually put to use.

Den

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Himalaya said:

Not sure exactly what you want to know but my local county Lancashire has a section at the end dedicated to ringing recoveries - two of the most interesting that I know are of a Kestrel ringed in East Lancashire being spotted in Morocco I think and a Peregrine also ringed in a nearby area as a chick now breeding in the East Midlands. They can learn a lot from birds via ringing.

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Same with the Northumberland annual report.

One I remember there was an Arctic Tern chick, ringed on the Farne Islands. Three months after fledging, it was found on a beach. In Melbourne, Australia. :eek!:

Nutcracker said:

Same with the Northumberland annual report.

One I remember there was an Arctic Tern chick, ringed on the Farne Islands. Three months after fledging, it was found on a beach. In Melbourne, Australia. :eek!:

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When you write "found" do you mean it was dead, or did someone read the ring number as it stood on the aforementioned beach, which would be quite difficult? Anyway, it must be one of the most distant bird recoveries ever.

Allen S. Moore said:

When you write "found" do you mean it was dead, or did someone read the ring number as it stood on the aforementioned beach, which would be quite difficult?

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Not sure, the report didn't say.

rosbifs said:

... In each case where the bird didn't react in a normal way notes were made. I'm sure this is common practice so somewhere there should be a database showing the results and actual figures/instances of problems...

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I ring birds within the French scheme. There have been ways to collect casualty-related data in some fields in the database of records ever since I joined. It includes codes for minor problems for birds released bearing a ring, such as birds carryng ticks or with tongue wounds from netting. As it couldn't cover new birds that are dead on arrival (as it were) and therefore are unringed, a novel system for recording such events onto the ringing database has recently been instituted.

Previously I ringed for more years than I care to remember with the UK scheme, and there was never any system to record casualties, apart from one keeping one's own notes on the field recording sheet.