[benp1]

I have a few pairs of not-so-good bins and a pair of Leica Trinovid 8x20s that go pretty much everywhere with me. I am wondering how important it is for a pair of bins to be waterproof?

I would have preferred to get Ultravids (which are waterproof and cost around 50% more) but I couldn't justify the increase in cost for the increase in performance. When I've been out in the rain I tend to leave them in my pocket and take them out when I need to, they may get a few drops of water on but I wipe them off and pop them back in my pocket when I'm done. I haven't taken them out when its been torrential.

btw - all my birding tends to be done when I'm wandering about, not in hides

How important is waterproofing to you? Do you use your bins in the rain? Are you precious about it?

I do actually have a pair of waterproof (supposedly) £20 10x42 7dayshop bins that I leave by the back door but they're cumbersome and heavy so they don't really come out with me. When I go to places where they may be birds to watch I take the Leicas just in case - I don't sit around for ages waiting (mainly cos I'll be with the dog or my wife or both) so I like to have a compact pair with me for those occasional moments

[dalat]

Hi, I certainly appreciate not to have to worry in the rain about my binocular and have it ready at any time, so also not need to worry about missing a bird because the bin is in the pocket.

But this is probably the least argument for waterproof bins, as the protection by rainguard and a little care when handling the bin in rain is probably also ok for non-waterproof bins.

More important to me is that I can wash the lenses under the tap, I think that is very convenient and a save way to avoid scratches from dust when cleaning the lenses.

Further, waterproofing means also no humidity inside and no risk of fogging in cold weather or no risk of fungus growing inside. The latter is very important to me, as I live in the tropics.

So all in all, waterproofing means less worries.

[chris lewis]

W.P is important to me as I live in a humid climate. I have about 40 odd binos the majority of them are W.P. I have about 10x older Japanese and Carl Zeiss porros. I have to be very careful how I store them. Internal deterioration can ocour in a matter of several years with mildew. I have from time to time get then professionally cleaned and collimated even when I store them correctly with in a cool, dry place with air circulating.
So where you live is a factor with non W.P. binos.

Chris

[ronh]

Old non waterproof binoculars can develop troubles on the inside. I've read of otherwise excellent old specimens that have grown milky from fungus on the glass. It's awesome that fungus can live on glass, but after all lichen lives on rocks. My Swift Porro bought in 1970 was only single coated in the first place, but the view now seems milky worse than that. Sometimes they can be cleaned but that is a big job and requires readjustment, and the expense often isn't justified. Sometimes the fungus has eroded the surface irreparably. Of course there are oldies that are as clear now as on day one, I guess it just depends on the conditions they were in throughout their lives.

I don't deliberately head out in a downpour, but I do get caught out occasionally. And I will head out in a drizzle, hoping it gets better. I try to keep the rainguard on, just so the view won't be fouled by water drops, and that alone would probably prevent immediate problems. But I value waterproofing a lot, for the confidence and longevity it provides. It seems especially important for Schmidt-Pechan roof prisms with highly corrosive silver coatings, like the Nikon LX, Leica Trinovid, and lots of others too.

But obviously, from the perpetual 24-hr SE love-in on this forum, with care a non waterproof bin can give excellent service for a long time. It's just a bit iffy is all. Tell me the SE fans aren't worried about it!

Birders, wrestling with the question of WP or not WP, might consider these wise words from about 40 years ago--which touch not only on the WP question, but also on matters of objective size and exit pupil. "A wet bird never flies at night." I have reflected on this a lot, daily almost, and although I have no idea what it means, still I feel that the answer lies there.
Ron

[Sancho]

Originally Posted by ronh

"A wet bird never flies at night."
Ron

Generally speakig I´d agree with the "no worries" attitude, for years I never even knew binos could be waterproofed. But the one situation in which I would feel my wp bins are essential is seawatching in squally weather....during which very wet birds fly in very dark conditions.

[RJM]

One day spent out on a sailboat or walking along the beach with breaking surf or hiking through mountains at altitude, and the utility of a rubber amored water/fogproof binocular will quickly become apparent to the user.

In another thread folks commented that my Nikon EII's looked brand new. Well its because they live in a luxury dry box along with my Canon 18x50IS when not being used and are only taken out for astro use and fair weather strolls aound the city parks. My 3 RA/WP/FP roofs live in my dirty beat-up backpacks.

cheers,
Rick

[denco@comcast.n]

Originally Posted by RJM

One day spent out on a sailboat or walking along the beach with breaking surf or hiking through mountains at altitude, and the utility of a rubber amored water/fogproof binocular will quickly become apparent to the user.

In another thread folks commented that my Nikon EII's looked brand new. Well its because they live in a luxury dry box along with my Canon 18x50IS when not being used and are only taken out for astro use and fair weather strolls aound the city parks. My 3 RA/WP/FP roofs live in my dirty beat-up backpacks.

cheers,
Rick

Waterproofing to me is a big advantage and I like the idea that my binoculars are waterproof, fogproof, and sealed from dust and debris. In fact I just sold my Leica 8x20 Trinovids and bought a pair of Zeiss 8x20 Victories and one of the big reasons was that the Zeiss are waterproof and the other was the single hinge design. I think especially in a compacts being waterproof is essential because you want to be able to have them with you no matter what the weather is doing and no matter where you are. For example, I am taking my Zeiss 8x20 Victories to Costa Rica and let me tell you you don't want a non-waterproof binocular in the Monteverde Cloud and Rain forest! I find I really prefer the little Zeiss for other reasons but being waterproof is a big one. All my binoculars are waterproof except for the Nikon 8x32 SE's and as we all know the optics in those just can't be beat!

[Hanno]

Absolute must. Apart from the fact that I have been soaked to the skin on more than one occasion, and that included the bins, it is important for me that the humidity and mold stay out.

[KorHaan]

The compact Zeiss 8x20 is a great little glass, but unfortunately the hinge is on the wrong side for me. Otherwise I would have long owned them. Sigh.

Waterproofing is a nice feature to have in your bins, but not always necessary. When I'm out with my Canon 10x30 IS's which are not WP, I'll tuck them away under my coat in drizzle, light rain and downpours. It's a bit slower getting them on a bird, but the knowledge they are not WP implies that I have to use them this way.
If I want carefree birding, no matter how the weather forecast is, I'll take my Canon 18x50 IS's, which can stand more than a little rain ( they are marked All Wheather ).
Or I'll take both, so I can switch between them when I feel like it.

Rainguards on the oculars I find cumbersome; I wipe rain drops off the lenses and clean my glasses every now and then. I could take to wearing a baseball cap, but when I do I can't reach the focus wheel comfortably. My solution is a compromise: I wear a cap with a smallish brim, that keeps my head dry and my specs a bit wet, but at least I can focus the bins.
I bought a cowboy hat that will fly off in high wind speeds; a chin strap I found of little use. The cap is best, besides, I hate birding in the rain. When I'm in a totally reckless mood I go out and let things happen as they come. Bins wet, specs wet, myself soaked to the bone; after a while you just don't care anymore. You get used to the droplets on all lens surfaces and enjoy the lousy view. Longer than two hours you just wanna lie down and die. When I'm back home and wasted, I swear I'll never ever go out in the rain again. Until the next time, when the weather is good. This endless circle is called birding.

Regards,

Ronald

[denco@comcast.n]

Originally Posted by KorHaan

The compact Zeiss 8x20 is a great little glass, but unfortunately the hinge is on the wrong side for me. Otherwise I would have long owned them. Sigh.

Waterproofing is a nice feature to have in your bins, but not always necessary. When I'm out with my Canon 10x30 IS's which are not WP, I'll tuck them away under my coat in drizzle, light rain and downpours. It's a bit slower getting them on a bird, but the knowledge they are not WP implies that I have to use them this way.
If I want carefree birding, no matter how the weather forecast is, I'll take my Canon 18x50 IS's, which can stand more than a little rain ( they are marked All Wheather ).
Or I'll take both, so I can switch between them when I feel like it.

Rainguards on the oculars I find cumbersome; I wipe rain drops off the lenses and clean my glasses every now and then. I could take to wearing a baseball cap, but when I do I can't reach the focus wheel comfortably. My solution is a compromise: I wear a cap with a smallish brim, that keeps my head dry and my specs a bit wet, but at least I can focus the bins.
I bought a cowboy hat that will fly off in high wind speeds; a chin strap I found of little use. The cap is best, besides, I hate birding in the rain. When I'm in a totally reckless mood I go out and let things happen as they come. Bins wet, specs wet, myself soaked to the bone; after a while you just don't care anymore. You get used to the droplets on all lens surfaces and enjoy the lousy view. Longer than two hours you just wanna lie down and die. When I'm back home and wasted, I swear I'll never ever go out in the rain again. Until the next time, when the weather is good. This endless circle is called birding.

Regards,

Ronald

Sorry, you don't like the hinge towards the left on the Zeiss 8x20 Victories. I find if I cup my hands over the top I can reach the focus easily with my right hand and once you are use to it it works quite nicely. They fit my hands better than any compact I have tried.

[ceasar]

Dennis,
This is a bit off topic, but maybe we can dispense with it here.

Does your Victory have any significant focus beyond infinity? Mine has very little at all. I don't wear glasses so I don't need it. I just wondered if it is a characteristic of the binocular. Also, my Victory has very little focus accommodation from about 100' to infinity. Most of the focus wheel is used up from close up to 100 feet or so. This doesn't bother me, in fact I rather like it. Sharp focus at a distance only requires a minor tweak or so.
Bob

[mannukiddo]

Very important for me living in India. Will never buy a bin without water proofing. I have suffered in the past with fungus problems.

[The Kerreran]

I didn't used to be too bothered about not having waterproof bins - I used a rainguard, my hands, and tucking them under my coat, and didn't let the weather stop me birding. Until the first time they fogged up. I thought it was a one-off [there was a snowball fight involved...] and used the 'airtight box full of silica over a radiator' method to dry them out [worked a charm]. Then, next time I was out in the damp, they fogged again - one of those threshold things I guess. Having become seriously fond of seawatching, this was a problem... Now I have Ultravids - not only WP etc but also with the wonderful oil/water/metal repellent coatings [Loquaclean (TM) ] which are worth their weight in gold.

[KorHaan]

Originally Posted by denco@comcast.n

Sorry, you don't like the hinge towards the left on the Zeiss 8x20 Victories. I find if I cup my hands over the top I can reach the focus easily with my right hand and once you are use to it it works quite nicely. They fit my hands better than any compact I have tried.

Good man!

You described how I would like to use them exactly, unfortunately I focus with my left hand... I've tried changing but focusing with my right hand doesn't feel as natural. I tried the Zeiss 8x20's but felt cramped focusing with left.

If Zeiss could just make a left-handed version...

Or I am left with double-hinged compacts which I could fold to my liking.
But then again, I don't like double-hinged compacts.

Waiting for a Zeiss reverse-porro compact. 8x25. Niiiiice....

Regards,

Ronald

[falcondude]

Waterproof is on top of my priority list. With that said, I am still considering to get a Nikon SE some time next year

[Pinewood]

Hello all,

I have neither dropped my binocular in water nor do I get much pleasure bird watching in the rain. However, I am clumsy, which is why I have given up my Nikon EII 8x30. The fact that a modern roof glass is sealed against moisture and dirt is a much more practical reason to have one of these waterproof binoculars. Their only drawback is that they tend to have narrower fields of view than similar leaky Porro binoculars but the alphas are reasonably wide.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood

[kristoffer]

Very important for me. I often get water on my bins, and I would hate to get dust or fog inside the glass.

[Pinewood]

Originally Posted by Pinewood

Hello all,

I have neither dropped my binocular in water nor do I get much pleasure bird watching in the rain. However, I am clumsy, which is why I have given up my Nikon EII 8x30. The fact that a modern roof glass is sealed against moisture and dirt is a much more practical reason to have one of these waterproof binoculars. Their only drawback is that they tend to have narrower fields of view than similar leaky Porro binoculars but the alphas are reasonably wide.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood

I have been told that internal focussing may lead to increased chromatic aberrations, so there may be a compromise of optical quality for reliability.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur

[Hanno]

And putting the bins under one's coat doesn't really work in my part of the world: at 30+ degrees and humidity in the 90's no one wears a coat (I know a coat is required in the UK at they height of what is called summer over there:-)))

[ceasar]

I remember reading an article several years ago in "Gray's Sporting Journal" by editor Terry Wieland on water proof binoculars. He took (to the best of my recollection) a new Swarovski 8 x 30 SLC, tied it to a cord and threw it into 10 feet of water off a dock in Alaska. He left it there overnight as a test. When he removed it the next morning it worked perfectly so he decided to keep it. Unfortunately I can't remember which issue had this article.
Bob

[Kammerdiner]

Originally Posted by KorHaan

Waiting for a Zeiss reverse-porro compact. 8x25. Niiiiice....

Second that. The 8x25 reverse porro strikes me as the ideal compact, although maybe an alpha-quality 8x25 roof would do--the quality is getting close these days.

I generally prefer my cheap (and at $57 I mean CHEAP) Olympus 8x25 Tracker reverse porro to my Ultravid 8x20. Sounds crazy but the view is as good, the exit pupil is easier, the size/weight are nearly identical, and no dopey double hinges. No WP, though. An easy fix.

[denco@comcast.n]

Originally Posted by Kammerdiner

Second that. The 8x25 reverse porro strikes me as the ideal compact, although maybe an alpha-quality 8x25 roof would do--the quality is getting close these days.

I generally prefer my cheap (and at $57 I mean CHEAP) Olympus 8x25 Tracker reverse porro to my Ultravid 8x20. Sounds crazy but the view is as good, the exit pupil is easier, the size/weight are nearly identical, and no dopey double hinges. No WP, though. An easy fix.

The Bushnell Custome Elite(Reverse Porro) 7x26 was not nearly as good as the alpha 8x20 roofs. It is a nice binocular but the optics are not as good.

[Kammerdiner]

Originally Posted by denco@comcast.n

The Bushnell Custome Elite(Reverse Porro) 7x26 was not nearly as good as the alpha 8x20 roofs. It is a nice binocular but the optics are not as good.

That's why I didn't mention the Bushnell's, which I have no experience with. All I know is my Olympus is as bright and sharp and nice as the Ultravid. The view is every bit as good; the exit pupil clinches it.

That said, I doubt I'll sell the little 8x20--it's too cute.

[mayoayo]

Dennis ,this is not what i have experienced myself with the elite custom..I have not extensively tested 8x20 alphas,but the custom elite 7x26 is an excellent binocular,I DOUBT that any of the 8x20 can get even closer,since the custom elite compares very well with much larger binoculars,(I have read some reviews and comparisons in the forum,other members have compared them and the custom ALWAYS seems to have the edge in performance),,the custom elite 7x26 is actually incredible and one of my favorite binoculars of all times,..Is quite better than previous versions,and manages glare(both internal reflections coming form the objective and reflections in the eyepiece) better than anything ...Now I have a vortex raptor 6.5x32 that doesnt even come closer to the custom elite,..My pentax SP 8x32 is not much brighter than the custom elite and shows more distortion ,plus is harder to align the exit pupils ,even though its exit pupils are larger,plus it glares more in most lights..they(custom elite)can even compare in the easy use and relaxed image with my Zeiss FL 8x32,and are probably more neutral and offer a more color saturated image(YES!)..I sold the elite custom because of lack of waterproofing,but I miss them and probably will end buying another pair,altohugh i want to wait to see if Bushnell decides to honor this classic with proper weatherproof. dont need submersible binoculars,but weatherproofing,nitrogen or argon purging and protection against dust are a must for field handling...

[denco@comcast.n]

Originally Posted by mayoayo

Dennis ,this is not what i have experienced myself with the elite custom..I have not extensively tested 8x20 alphas,but the custom elite 7x26 is an excellent binocular,I DOUBT that any of the 8x20 can get even closer,since the custom elite compares very well with much larger binoculars,(I have read some reviews and comparisons in the forum,other members have compared them and the custom ALWAYS seems to have the edge in performance),,the custom elite 7x26 is actually incredible and one of my favorite binoculars of all times,..Is quite better than previous versions,and manages glare(both internal reflections coming form the objective and reflections in the eyepiece) better than anything ...Now I have a vortex raptor 6.5x32 that doesnt even come closer to the custom elite,..My pentax SP 8x32 is not much brighter than the custom elite and shows more distortion ,plus is harder to align the exit pupils ,even though its exit pupils are larger,plus it glares more in most lights..they(custom elite)can even compare in the easy use and relaxed image with my Zeiss FL 8x32,and are probably more neutral and offer a more color saturated image(YES!)..I sold the elite custom because of lack of waterproofing,but I miss them and probably will end buying another pair,altohugh i want to wait to see if Bushnell decides to honor this classic with proper weatherproof. dont need submersible binoculars,but weatherproofing,nitrogen or argon purging and protection against dust are a must for field handling...

Mayoayo
You really should try the Zeiss 8x20 Victory or the Leica Ultravid or Trinovid 8x20's. I compared them head to head with the Bushnell Elite 7x28 and there was no question in my mind that I preferred the view through the little 8x20's plus they are SMALLER. I sent the Bushnell back. It is a good looking binocular but optically it just doesn't compare I'm telling you. Those baby alphas are really good for their size. I guess it's kind of you get what you pay for. The little alphas are twice the price of the Bushnell Elite and they are definitely better optics with only a 20mm aperture. In fact the little alphas mimic their big brothers but they are not quite as good.