Infocus Optics in Southwest London. I´ve bought from them before, and they are superb. (Neither I, my family members, my dog nor anyone I have ever met has any association with them, btw
).
-
Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.
Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
New Swarovski EL? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter kristoffer
- Start date
).
brocknroller
porromaniac
Stubby finger suffers, a solution awaits you here:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002HZIXG4/ref=asc_df_B002HZIXG4969830?smid=A3145K6BOBTR4Q&tag=shopzilla_rev_76-20&linkCode=asn&creative=380341&creativeASIN=B002HZIXG4
dogfish
Well-known member
"The only fault I could find [other than the price - I mean, come on!!!] was the positioning of the focus wheel back by the eyecups, instead of where your fingers naturally rest when holding the binocular at it's centre of gravity. But this is a problem that has become universal, and to be honest is more to do with my unnaturally stubby fingers...." :-C[/QUOTE]
This is my experience too... and I haven't got stubby fingers. It may be heresy in some quarters to say so, but for me the ELs are not the most satisfying binocular in ergonomic terms.
Optics looked pretty good on the demonstration models at the British Birdfair last year though.
Sean
This is my experience too... and I haven't got stubby fingers. It may be heresy in some quarters to say so, but for me the ELs are not the most satisfying binocular in ergonomic terms.
Optics looked pretty good on the demonstration models at the British Birdfair last year though.
Sean
edwincjones
Well-known member
welcome ianbuckley,
that is one impressive first post
edj
that is one impressive first post
edj
brocknroller
porromaniac
'Es a witch, I tell ya, 'es a witch! Let's put 'em on the scale!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g
At the risk of being burned at the stake for heresy along with Sean, I will also make a heretical statement, not about the EL, which I haven't tried, but about its Chinese clone, the Promaster ED.
I have large hands and find holding most closed bridge roofs difficult, particularly midsized models (compacts I wouldn't even consider).
Unlike porros, roofs are supported more from the top and sides than from the bottom, because there is no platform on the bottom to rest my thumbs.
If a roof has thumb indents that are properly placed for my grip, and wide enough and shallow enough to accommodate my hand/finger sizes, it can also be supported from below, but I've found only rarely do the thumb indents on roofs fit my hands/fingers.
The other problem I have with the ergonomics of roofs is they are too narrow - I run out of binocular before I run out of fingers, so my fingers overlap on top.
The midsized Swarovski SLC is the only closed roof I've tried that fits my hands, because of its long, shallow thumb indents.
Having my thumbs supporting the bin below enables me to rest my fingers on top on the barrels instead of on top of each other.
However, I don't like the "pinky focuser" on the 7x30/8x30 models.
Last year, I had the opportunity to try a Promaster ED.
I had high expectations since it was an open bridge roof and it had thumb indents.
The views were superb, they closely matched my 8x32 LX, but I was disappointed with the ergonomics. I felt like I was holding a shoe.
It was too long and the thumb indents were too deep and too far back for my hands.
I have long fingers but I found I had to reach back for the focuser whereas with the 8x32 LX, my index finger falls right on the focuser (and the LX's focuser is so much better than the Promaster's, which was slow and a bit ratchety ).
There also wasn't much room to put my fingers btwn the barrels, which is the purpose of making an open bridge roof!
So while I give it high points for optics, I found it somewhat awkward to hold.
This year, I tried the Nikon EDG open bridge roof, which fit my hands perfectly.
I'm not sure if the overall length is shorter, but the open bridge design feels much better. I can get my fingers in space btwn the barrels, and the wide, shallow thumb indents work well.
My index and middle fingers rested on the focuser, though I needed to place one hand slightly in back of the other in order to achieve this, but it was still comfortable and afforded me a steady grip even at 10x.
Lesson learned: Not all open bridged roof designs are created equal. Some might work for you, some might not.
Given the huge price difference btwn the Promaster and the EDG - $1,500. I might buy the Promaster, peel the armoring back by the thumb indents and use a Dremel tool to carve out a wider, shallower thumb indent in the right position for my hands, and then squeeze some lithium grease into the focuser.
The Kerreran
Has hat, will stand in the rain
:-O:-O:-O:-O :clap: :gn:
Ah, you, who have found the Way! To Truth, to Peace, to Harmony and Contentment with your Optics Lot! Dammit. I used to have a pair of Nikon HGL 8x32, sold ´em for something else, can´t remember why. I don´t think I ever actually saw any birds through them.
Someone has to occupy the tortured corners of existence, so that the rest can observe in horror and shun the paths of darkness. You and I, Fireform, we´re doing Humanity a service. One day they will thank us. (Meanwhile, it´ll be interesting what we both make of these uber-uber-bins. Let´s see who gets ´em first, the winner has to send the loser a prize.....):t:
brocknroller
porromaniac
Well, if you are going to hell, you will need the ELs since they can withstand temperatures up to 131* F!
Did you see this information from Doug at Camera Land on the new EL?
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/3401495/Re_The_New_Swarovski_EL_SWAROV
Here's something I didn't know about the Neu Neu EL:
"Redesigned, smooth and tolerance free focus mechanism – 1 turn to go from infinity to 10 ft. Another full turn to go from 10 ft. to 4.9 ft.
This new focusing mechanism allows a correction of vision of at least 6 diopters, in order to compensate for near or far sightedness."
I'm not sure how I feel about the focuser taking one full turn from 10 ft. to 4.9 ft.??? That's even slower than my SE turns. One thing's sure, you won't overshoot your target going at that speed.
The diopter accommodation sounds great, I'm very farsighted in one eye.
But you apparently can't have your fast focus cake and eat your diopter compensation too.
I look forward to reading your reviews next month.
P.S. Don't worry about those "tortured corners of existence," I've got them covered!
Last edited:
dalat
...
It's normal that focussing gets relatively much slower in close distances. When comparing focusing speed, one should always consider the same interval, eg. how many turns from infinity to the same close focus distance. How close does the SE focus? I believe 10 feet... So you need to compare the focus speed from 10 feet to infinity.
Eg. my Ultravid 8x42 has a close focus of around 3 m = 10 feet. To infinity it takes 1 1/4 turn. So the focus of the new Swaro would be a little quicker than that.
brocknroller
porromaniac
Thanks for that info. Yes, the SE close focuses at about 10 ft. but I never measured how many turns it takes to go from, say 15 ft. to 10 ft. and 15 ft to infinity, or to go through the entire focus range.
It seems "sluggish" throughout. I will have to test it to see how it compares to the new Swaro.
Even with the slower focuser speed near close focus, the Swaro still takes 2 full turns of the wheel to go from close focus to infinity.
I remember the original EL focuser was criticized for being too slow so it must have taken even more than 2 turns.
These days, 2 1/2 turns through the range is considered "slow" by some reviewers.
The full sized Nikon Premier goes from cf to infinity in 1 turn, and the midsized LX goes from cf to infinity in 1/2 turn! That's really fast. You need a precise focuser with such a fast focus.
The only bin I've owned where I've actually noticed the focusing getting much slower at close distances was the 8x50 Octarem. That bin's focuser turned very quickly at far distance and noticeably slowed at closer range. I could actually feel the focuser moving more slowly. It was like having a "dual speed" focuser.
This was a good thing since if it didn't slow, I'd overshoot my targets the way I did with my first sample 8x32 LX, which had a loose focuser.
Modern roofs like the LX and EL have large sized focusers.
The SE's focuser is fairly small in diameter. So it probably takes more than 2 turns from cf to infinity, but I will test it.
The only porro I've had with a fast focuser is my Nikon 8x35 WF, which takes only 1/2 turn from cf to infinity. Fortunately, the DOF is very good so that doesn't seem too fast.
LOL! Of course the really silly thing is that I'm not even afflicted by these horrors (i.e. rolling ball/CA)...only by a sad greed to acquire new bins.On behalf of all of us who do not suffer from the "Rolling Ball Effect" or are cursed with the constant presence of CA, let me state how gratifying it is not to have to make the decision to pay $2400.00 to get Swarovision to rid our vision of these afflictions!|
Bob
dalat
...
It had a different close-focus distance, so you can't compare that directly. I wanted to say that it does not make sense to compare the focus speed of bins over their whole range of focus, when the close-focus distance is different.
When comparing focus speed of 2 bins, you should start at the same close distance with both bins and then count the turns to infinity.
If the new Swaro really has only one turn from 3m to infinity, that is a rather quick focus, compared to many other bins.
henry link
Well-known member
Dalat is quite right about this.
Change in focus is measured in diopters and the movement of the focuser required to change the focus by 1D is constant over the entire focusing range with all binoculars except a very few that change the gearing ratio at close focus (the only ones I can recall now are the Brunton Epoch series). What isn't constant is the value of a 1 diopter change in focus at different distances. Just now I made some rough measurements using the diopter scale on the right eyepiece of a Nikon 8x32 SE. The total range of focus change from about 6 feet to infinity is around 34D. The first 10D of focus change (about 30% of the total focuser turning required to change from 6' to infinity) is consumed just by moving the focus from 6' to 9'. The next 10D (the next 30% of total turning) moves the focus only to about 15' The next 10 D goes to about 50' and the last 3-4D covers the entire distance from 50' to infinity. If the focusing speeds of different binoculars are to be compared it's essential to set the close focus to precisely the same distance in every case and measure the focuser turns only as far as infinity, not to the mechanical stop beyond infinity.
Brock, I think your memory of the close focusing of the Octarem is mistaken. There is no change in the focuser speed, but you might be reacting to a little more resistance to focuser movement at close distance. There are some rubber skirts used for sealing inside the eyepiece tubes that act like bellows. They're compressed at infinity focus and offer little resistance to movement, but there's more resistance as they are increasingly stretched at close focus.
Change in focus is measured in diopters and the movement of the focuser required to change the focus by 1D is constant over the entire focusing range with all binoculars except a very few that change the gearing ratio at close focus (the only ones I can recall now are the Brunton Epoch series). What isn't constant is the value of a 1 diopter change in focus at different distances. Just now I made some rough measurements using the diopter scale on the right eyepiece of a Nikon 8x32 SE. The total range of focus change from about 6 feet to infinity is around 34D. The first 10D of focus change (about 30% of the total focuser turning required to change from 6' to infinity) is consumed just by moving the focus from 6' to 9'. The next 10D (the next 30% of total turning) moves the focus only to about 15' The next 10 D goes to about 50' and the last 3-4D covers the entire distance from 50' to infinity. If the focusing speeds of different binoculars are to be compared it's essential to set the close focus to precisely the same distance in every case and measure the focuser turns only as far as infinity, not to the mechanical stop beyond infinity.
Brock, I think your memory of the close focusing of the Octarem is mistaken. There is no change in the focuser speed, but you might be reacting to a little more resistance to focuser movement at close distance. There are some rubber skirts used for sealing inside the eyepiece tubes that act like bellows. They're compressed at infinity focus and offer little resistance to movement, but there's more resistance as they are increasingly stretched at close focus.
Last edited:
To tell you the truth Sancho....i am still prone to the seduction of new optics like many folk...but these ridiculous 'over the top' prices have a tendency to dampen my ardor somewhat...[like a bucket of cold water]...
I read with interest that swaro have a redesigned smooth focusing wheel...bout time! Love the 'close focusing' thing that these new bins have...in theory.
ps...how could you have sold the HGnikons!!!? The price of these bins went down a few years back to about £400...talk about a 'steal'...i wish that i'd have purchased a second pair! Gawd knows what i'll do if anything untoward happen to my present bins...it doesn't bear thinking about:eek!:....[i may have to rob a bank]...
pps...i wish you well with the new swaro's when they arrive....i hope they bring you much happiness and that you see some great stuff through them...[coz at the end of the day...that is what it's all about]...!:t:
spacepilot
Well-known member
Another thing to consider at 5-10ft is that the bin doesn't need much steadying to provide a good view. So you could potentially loosen your grip of the right hand, if that's your focusing hand, and reach over across the bin on the top so your focusing finger has a bigger range in one motion. With the hand in that position, 1 fully turn of the knob will take 2, maybe 1, motions of your hand. At that close a range, the IPD may also need adjustment, unless the Swarovision is truly *razor* sharp from edge to edge. So the position change of your hand could be accomplished when you adjust the IPD, and no extra time is wasted. Of course this is just my guess, and I'm quite anxious to hear how well the close focus works in the field when more people get their hands on the new EL.
Ning
Ning
Surveyor
The more I understand, the more I understand why I
Hi Brock;
You did not mention the power of the Swaros in your quote. Based on the above figures, the Swaros would indicate about 17 degrees per diopter at 8x and around 11 degrees per diopter at 10x.
You can compare this to 22 degrees per diopter in the 8x43 Promaster, 14 degrees per diopter in the 7x36 ED2 Zen or 7 degrees per diopter for the 8x36 Monarch ATB. I believe you are familiar with these three models.
Dalat and Henry are correct, the ‘exact’ close focus distance, or starting at the same focus distance, is extremely important in determining the focus rate.
Best
Ron
Huh? "Seeing stuff through them?" Why? I just want to look at them and tell them bedtime stories....
kristoffer
Used Register
So true
Huh? "Seeing stuff through them?" Why? I just want to look at them and tell them bedtime stories....
Similar threads
