• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Bird notes and sketches from Nepal-ID help please (1 Viewer)

Joern Lehmhus

Well-known member
Hi all, While I was searching some different things, I came across an old sketch pad from my nepal tour 12 years ago, which I thought I had lost years ago.

Bird id was difficult for me then because I had brought no good bird book with me and did not get a good one there.

But now with the old notes and sketches it is perhaps possible to get some more species identified than I did manage then?

The travels were from mid-September to mid-October 1992 in the Chitwan, in the Anapurna region (we did make the Annapurna base camp trek from Pokhara), and in the Kathmandu valley.


So here come the first 3 descriptions:

1.A group of about 15 starling-sized or thrush-sized birds in the Annapurna base camp area (about 4200m), seen from quite a distance: some a beautiful dark blue with black wings and tail, others brown speckled , wings darker than body and with a small white patch (in the middle of the wing when closed) they where hopping on the ground between rocks and on short grass meadow.

2. A dark brown falcon with a light beige/sandcoloured crown, also quite dark flanks , with dark blotchy spots- the overall appearance was very dark, except the head and upper part of breast and undertail coverts, the "beard stripe" on the head was dark but thin. Size about the size of a peregrine.also seen on that Annapurna base camp treck, but much lower (hight not noted, near Kumru Kola)

3. An all grey thrush with a lighter gorge with a thin dark stripe beginning from the bill, bill was dirty orange-horn coloured- seen near the village Bamboo

Hope somebody can help-
perhaps somebody can also recommend a book on the birds of the region? I´m thinking to go there again in the next years...

Thanks, Jörn
 
Hi Joern,

birds number 1 sound like the incredibley beautiful Grandala, males with their shimmering blue bodies, and the browner birds being females.

Number 2 - Lagger Falcon, though not sure if they occur there, if they do, then this is surely what it is.

Number 3 - Unsure, as I've never been to Nepal, so unsure on what occurs there regarding thrushes.

There are 2 excellent bird books for that region, Inskipp, Inskipp & Grimmett do one for the Indian Subcontinent, including Nepal (I think they now do one for just the Himalaya Region? Tim will know more than me on this), also Krys Kazmeizcak (spelling?) produces a similar book on birds of the Indian Subcontinent.

all the best
 
Last edited:
Hi Joern,
No. 1, as James says is the stunning Grandala (perhaps my favourite bird of all time). I too saw them near Annapurna BC in 1995.
No. 2 laggar does seem the best bet, though I'm not sure what a juv. peregrine of the appropriate race would look like.
No.3 sounds like Tickell's thrush.

There is now a Inskipp, Inskipp and Grimmett guide just for Nepal, though if you are travelling more widely then the guide for the whole subcontinent is more suitable.

Rob
 
Hi James and Rob,
I also thought Grandala for bird Nr. 1 , but I was told by a guy there at Annapurna base camp in 1992 that males have a non-breeding plumage in winter where they are not blue? Or was that guy wrong?
That´s why I wrote down a description then...

For bird 2 and 3 I had made sketches which may help but I need to scan them first, (my thoughts were going in similar direction)...
 
Hi Joern,

I have never heard of male grandala being anything other than blue, so I suspect the guy was wrong. I have only ever seen males in spring.

Rob
 
Joern,

They keep there plumage all year round, even if they did moult to a brown plumage, I'd still say Grandala from your description, they really are unmistakable, and your description sounds spot on, no other bird poses such colours the way they do! Incredible birds, no photo or illustration will ever do the bird justice

I agree with Rob on bird 3, Tickell's Thrush

all the best
 
OK, then I suppose it was Grandala and that guy was wrong?

here is a sketch of bird Nr.2, the falcon, -what do you think?
 

Attachments

  • falcon.jpg
    falcon.jpg
    72.1 KB · Views: 249
And here is a 4th bird that I saw several times in the Annapurna region on shortgrass meadows above timberline, clearly a pipit and I hope it is characteristic enough to ID it...

I have about 30 more scetches and I will post them all to see if it´s possible to get some more identified- with some of them I have a suspicion what they might be ,
but a general problem is that they are all made with pencil on what is not always the best paper and with some I just have problems with scanning-like with this one...

Hey and Tickell´s Thrush was really spot on I think! good to know.Thanks!
 

Attachments

  • pipits.jpg
    pipits.jpg
    61.6 KB · Views: 201
Last edited:
OK Joern,
No.4 must be a non-breeding plumage rosy pipit. In winter they descend to the foothills but I would guess at the time of your visit there would still be plenty around. There aren't really any other pipits occurring above the treeline.
Your sketch of no. 2 does look better for Laggar, which would be quite scarce in Nepal at this altitude. However I've no personal experience of species, so perhaps someone else can comment ...

Keep them coming!

Rob
 
Hi Rob , this spring I bought the helm-guide on Pipits and wagtails and during the weekend thought I should try myself-got the same ID and am happy -many thanks!

With the falcon I am quite sure it was no Peregrine_ I even wrote " kein Wanderfalke"-no peregrine - on the sketch. I remember it remindet me of something more like a saker/lanner. Laggar falcon I hadn´t seen previously. But I thought on the tibetian plateau you can find Saker falcons and i do know virtually nothing of the distribution of Lanner falcons ....
 
Joern Lehmhus said:
But I thought on the tibetian plateau you can find Saker falcons and i do know virtually nothing of the distribution of Lanner falcons ....

Saker certainly does occur on the Tibetan plateau, but is a rare winter visitor to the trans-Himalayan parts of Nepal (back of Dhaulagiri, Mustang etc.).

Rob
 
Hi,
here´s bird 5 , a warbler (seen at lower altitude in one of the first woods of Alnus nipalensis we saw), I don´t know if it´s id-able from a sketch-from what I wrote then beside the drawing the supercilium must have been quite distinct, but no other markings

and bird 6, a wren-like strange little round thing which crept through the bushes and mossy undergrowth where we had a rest (this second one was difficult to see but stayed in the same bush for at least half an hour). We also saw what I think were normal wrens but this bird was quite different in pattern and coloration.
 

Attachments

  • d-wrenoid.bmp
    375.3 KB · Views: 159
Joern Lehmhus said:
Hi,
here´s bird 5 , a warbler (seen at lower altitude in one of the first woods of Alnus nipalensis we saw), I don´t know if it´s id-able from a sketch-from what I wrote then beside the drawing the supercilium must have been quite distinct, but no other markings

and bird 6, a wren-like strange little round thing which crept through the bushes and mossy undergrowth where we had a rest (this second one was difficult to see but stayed in the same bush for at least half an hour). We also saw what I think were normal wrens but this bird was quite different in pattern and coloration.
Hi Joern,
My best guess for 5 is the unfortunately named aberrant bush warbler. They are olivey above and buffy below with a distinct super. Off hand I can't think of any likely phylloscs (they all tend to have wing bars).
No. 6 is clearly a scaly-breasted wren-babbler - but identifying it to species will be nigh on impossible. There 3 species: lesser, Nepal (newly described) and greater. There is some altitudinal variation between the 3 but also considerable overlap. Any idea what altitude you were at the time?
I had the frustrating experience of seeing plenty of wren-babblers in the Langtang gorge (the prime locality for Nepal wren-babbler) in 1992 before the species was known. I have NOT ticked it retrospectively!

Rob
 
Aberrant Bush warbler?! What´s aberrant about ist? ;)
Is it a Phylloscopus or some strange genus I have never heard of? You see, on the drawing, I noted it was quite olive-green (olivgrün) on the back

Wren babbler: is there really nothing good to distinguish them? In most pics I have not more info than on the drawing itself, but I´ll look and i will ask the friends that were with me, if they remember this bird.

And were the other small birds i thought to be wrens (troglodytes troglodytes) also wren babblers then?
 
Joern Lehmhus said:
Aberrant Bush warbler?! What´s aberrant about ist? ;)
Is it a Phylloscopus or some strange genus I have never heard of? You see, on the drawing, I noted it was quite olive-green (olivgrün) on the back

Wren babbler: is there really nothing good to distinguish them? In most pics I have not more info than on the drawing itself, but I´ll look and i will ask the friends that were with me, if they remember this bird.

And were the other small birds i thought to be wrens (troglodytes troglodytes) also wren babblers then?

I suspect what is aberrant is that it looks a bit like a phyllosc! It is actually a Cettia.
There are subtle size/plumage differences for wren-babblers. Also I think greater tends to be easier to see. I will check my books tonight and get back to you.

Wren certainly occurs in Nepal, I have mostly seen it high up in rocky areas. Birds tend to be darker than in Europe.

Rob
 
A Cettia?!? Now thats something I´d never have expected...

What about this ?

It´s a Carpodacus, I´d say, but what species? It was quite big, clearly bigger than a River chat, I noted.
 

Attachments

  • D-friendly Carpodacus.bmp
    395.5 KB · Views: 156
Last edited:
Concerning the wren-babbler, i noted on the drawing that it was blackspotted on the belly and brown above- I don´t know if that is any clue to a closer ID?
 
Joern Lehmhus said:
Concerning the wren-babbler, i noted on the drawing that it was blackspotted on the belly and brown above- I don´t know if that is any clue to a closer ID?

... sadly not. The three possibilities are virtually alike, all occuring in two morphs. In plumage only (Greater) Scaly-breasted Wren-babbler stands a bit out with a slight spotting on the cheeks, crown and mantle. However, this spotting always is faint and sometimes virtually non-existant. Nepal and Pygmy are best separated by size of bill, with Pygmy having a somewhat finer bill. Having said that, voice has more significance than any of the above features and is probably the only completely certain way of separating the three species...
 
Hi Joern,

After consulting field guides last night there are characters by which wren-babblers may be separated. For example Nepal is very plain on the back. Your sketch shows a dark belly, this would certainly favour greater.

Back to no. 5 the warbler. It occurs to me that Tickell's warbler is a phyllosc. without wingbars and yellow underneath. However the yellow is quite bright, what about your bird? The rounded tail in your sketch is more suitable for a bush warbler.

The rosefinch looks good for streaked rosefinch (also known as eastern great). Great rosefinch also occurs, but the race severtzovi that occurs in the Himalayas is very pale and sandy coloured.

Your sketches are very good - if they weren't this might be a tall order!

Rob
 
Warning! This thread is more than 19 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top