BIF camera settings please (1 Viewer)

I have been trying a lot recently for BIFs and I am disillusioned with the high percentage of OOFs that I have been getting. I am using a 40D and 600f4 IS with a 1.4x.
I have come to the conclusion that the first step may be to bin the 1.4x . Can any of you guys offer me a typical list of camera settings that you would use.
I am currently trying 400ISO, Spot metering, AV, Wide open. always tripod mounted.
I acknowledge that my technique may be crap, so any hints in that department would also be gratefully received.
Many thanks

I use partial metering and AI servo for BIF with the 40D and 400 5.6.

Roy,
I will try partial metering, I also use AI servo.

Thanks a million.

Exposure settings won't help you with OOF, but FWIW I generally use ISO 200-400 (you don't need high ISOs for BIF unless the light is terrible, around 2/3rds or 1/2 the ISO you would use for sitting birds is often good - and stop down a fair way. F/8 to f/11 is typical. That gives you greater DOF (which is good with larger birds in particular) and more room for focus error. But if you are not getting 1/1000th or better at your chosen aperture, increase the ISO.

Everyone has their own method for exposure. I use partial metering and (typically) about 2/3rds +ve EC, but that depends on the lighting.

For focus, it is useful to switch all the focus points on (unless the bird is against a strong background).

Oh, and yes, take the teleconverter off. The faster and more accurate focus you get with the bare lens is more than ample compensation for the decreased magnification.

I'm using a 500/4 rather than a 600/4, but they are pretty similar. I'm also mostly using a 1D III with the 500 these days and have a 100-400 on my 40D, but I used a 20D with the 500/4 for quite a while before that, so I think my experience should be relevant. The Mark III certainly does better than the 20D/40D, but with good luck, practice, and above all lots of paitence you will get good results. Stick with it!

Tannin said:

Exposure settings won't help you with OOF, but FWIW I generally use ISO 200-400 (you don't need high ISOs for BIF unless the light is terrible, around 2/3rds or 1/2 the ISO you would use for sitting birds is often good - and stop down a fair way. F/8 to f/11 is typical. That gives you greater DOF (which is good with larger birds in particular) and more room for focus error. But if you are not getting 1/1000th or better at your chosen aperture, increase the ISO.

Everyone has their own method for exposure. I use partial metering and (typically) about 2/3rds +ve EC, but that depends on the lighting.

For focus, it is useful to switch all the focus points on (unless the bird is against a strong background).

Oh, and yes, take the teleconverter off. The faster and more accurate focus you get with the bare lens is more than ample compensation for the decreased magnification.

I'm using a 500/4 rather than a 600/4, but they are pretty similar. I'm also mostly using a 1D III with the 500 these days and have a 100-400 on my 40D, but I used a 20D with the 500/4 for quite a while before that, so I think my experience should be relevant. The Mark III certainly does better than the 20D/40D, but with good luck, practice, and above all lots of paitence you will get good results. Stick with it!

Click to expand...

Nice one tannin, much appreciated.
Can you tell me your preference on the IS setting of the lens. There seems to be a huge difference of opinion as to 1,2 or off

Mike

Mike, I have two answers on your IS on/off question.

Intellectually, I lean towards the IS off camp. I've seen several very good photographers post that turning the IS off improves their flight shots and their reasoning seems sound, and their results speak volumes.

In practice, I usually leave it on, mostly because flight shots tend to pop up very fast when you are not expecting them and there are so many settings that you need to get right, so switching the IS off tends to get lost in the rush. Half the time when I do have time to change it, I forget.

I don't know that it really makes a lot of difference. I've been meaning to run some tests of my own, but flight shot opportunities tend to be random and often short, so that will happen when it happens.

mike nesbitt said:

I have been trying a lot recently for BIFs and I am disillusioned with the high percentage of OOFs that I have been getting. I am using a 40D and 600f4 IS with a 1.4x.
I have come to the conclusion that the first step may be to bin the 1.4x . Can any of you guys offer me a typical list of camera settings that you would use.
I am currently trying 400ISO, Spot metering, AV, Wide open. always tripod mounted.
I acknowledge that my technique may be crap, so any hints in that department would also be gratefully received.
Many thanks

Click to expand...

I don't have the answers, because I've never used anything like that setup. I'm sure you're aware of the figures but can we just run over some stats...

600mm + 1.4X telecon = 840mm (35mm equivalent)
Factor in the 1.6X crop and you have 1,344mm (35mm equivalent)

With that kind of focal length I'm not sure how much reliance can be placed on IS (not sure if the 1.4X hampers performance in any way) or, given you can't have the tripod locked down, if you're tracking BIF, how much you can depend on the tripod either. You probably need 1/1000 shutter speed or faster for safety.

Now let's consider DOF. I don't know how big or how far away the birds are but you say you're shooting wide open. So that's F/4 plus the telecon, making f/5.6.

Using the DOF calculator here - http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html - and figures of 800mm (closest they have to 840mm), on a crop body, at f/5.6 on a target at 100m, you have a DOF of about +/- 1.5m. At 50m your DOF is +/- 40cm and at 200m you have +/- 6m. I don't know how finely the AF can make adjustments to the AF but fine tuning to an accuracy of, say, 50cm at a distance of 100m would be quite impressive, I think. By the way, I've read that Canon's target accuracy for AF operation is to within 1/2 DOF for a consumer camera like the 40D (1/3 DOF for a 1Dxxx). That's probably for a bare lens, and I don't know their acceptable tolerances (if any) if a telecon is added.

So for distances of 100m or less I would say it's quite a challenge for the AF to focus accurately at all (to within 1% or less), much less within the DOF for a BIF. Let's say the focus is tracking on the nearest part of the bird, which is normally how these things work. That means about half your DOF is wasted (ahead of the subject) so you've got no margin of error at all. I can see how you could expect to get decent results on a static object, but seriously, a BIF? Sounds like a very tall order to me.

I would think you're going to have to be at f/8 (equivalent) at least, and 1/1000, and have a well lit contrasty subject (oh, and very good (predictive) tracking skills yourself) to stand any real chance of success.

Like I say, no personal experience so I could be talking rubbish, but it's worth considering how tough the challenge should be.

that just about sums it up, my thought entirely.

Personally on that rig I would suggest dialling in 2/3 to 1 full stop of +ve exposure compensation, activate all of the autofocus points, select AI servo, motordrive on, partial metering, lose the teleconverter (600mm is plenty - honest) and set the IS to off. Set the camera to sports mode to take care of shutter speed. ISO 400 is a good place to start and look to get around 1/500 @ f8 as a fair balance of depth of field & shutter speed.

Handhold the outfit rather than using a tripod too as you can follow the bird easier and pan through the movement of the bird as sports photographers do.

Pretty much all of my BIF stuff is done with a 70-200 f2.8 on my 20D and these are the settings I start with and tweak according to weather, distance, etc.

Thanks a million gents.
I have been back out this afternoon and implemented several of the changes, as recommended by Tannin,Adrian et al.
I had a lot more success today in that the percentage of keepers has shot up and some are almost sharp.
I haven't had time to digest the reply from T Dodd but it looks quite deep and I shall give it a coat of looking at!!!
Attached is one of todays efforts, I cant fathom out how to attach thumbnails ..........so here it is.


Any more info will be gratefully received.

mike nesbitt said:

I haven't had time to digest the reply from T Dodd but it looks quite deep and I shall give it a coat of looking at!!!

Click to expand...

All I was doing was showing my "working out" like in a maths exam, to show how I arrived at where I got to.

Bottom line - with a lens setup like that, my advice (based on no personal experience whatsoever ) would be....

Set shutter speed to 1/1000 or faster - to defeat camera shake;
Set aperture to between f/8-f/16 - to give adequate DOF, without excessive diffraction;
Pick a day with good lighting, coming from the right direction - to aid focusing and exposure;
Pick an ISO to complement the conditions above;
Acquire targetting and tracking skills (and steadiness of aim) to compete with a black ops elite sniper.

tdodd said:

All I was doing was showing my "working out" like in a maths exam, to show how I arrived at where I got to.

Bottom line - with a lens setup like that, my advice (based on no personal experience whatsoever ) would be....

Set shutter speed to 1/1000 or faster - to defeat camera shake;
Set aperture to between f/8-f/16 - to give adequate DOF, without excessive diffraction;
Pick a day with good lighting, coming from the right direction - to aid focusing and exposure;
Pick an ISO to complement the conditions above;
Acquire targetting and tracking skills (and steadiness of aim) to compete with a black ops elite sniper.

Click to expand...

Thanks Tim.
I was pretty much in sync with most of that yesterday, Although the shutter speed was sometimes as low as 1/500
The sun is shining, I may try again this afternoon.

Mike

mike nesbitt said:

always tripod mounted.

Click to expand...

Important question here, what kind of head are you using. With a lens the size of a 600 + 1.4, I hope you're using a gimbal head such as the Wimberley. Anything else and minute movements will cause you to lose the plot.

alan carr said:

Important question here, what kind of head are you using. With a lens the size of a 600 + 1.4, I hope you're using a gimbal head such as the Wimberley. Anything else and minute movements will cause you to lose the plot.

Click to expand...

Hi Alan.
I'm quite happy about the head, I use a Manfrotto 393 (ok it's not a wimberley) but it's a pretty solid piece of Ironmongery. This in turn is fixed to Gitzo 3540 legs.
Mike.

A few thoughts, some of which may gently disagree with the excellent advice you have received in this thread:

1/ The 1.4x TC shouldnt lead to poor images. The image below was shot with the 500/4 + 1.4x and I have quite a few BIF shots taken with the 500 and 2x. With a TC, the lens will be a little slow to acquire focus but once it does, the tracking works quite well.
http://www.photosafariindia.com/galleries/khichan/page001.html
I rarely shoot my 500 without a TC (usually 2x, at that).

2/ If you are shooting tripod-mounted and are photographing birds flying at typical distances and speeds, 1/250 ought be to be more than adequate at giving you sharp shots. Still, higher speeds never hurt.

3/ Practice. Sounds like a terrible cliche but really, learning to follow the birds in a smooth easy trajectory is the key. Once you do that, you'll find that you get a very high % of keepers.

4/ As Tannin said, increasing your DOF (especially for frame-filling birds) and activating all AF points is the big thing from a technical point of view.

Cheers,
Vandit

vkalia said:

1/ The 1.4x TC shouldnt lead to poor images. The image below was shot with the 500/4 + 1.4x and I have quite a few BIF shots taken with the 500 and 2x. With a TC, the lens will be a little slow to acquire focus but once it does, the tracking works quite well.
Cheers,
Vandit

Click to expand...

Remember that the OP is not using a series 1 body so with a 2x tc he will not have AF at all unless he tapes the pins or uses a non reporting tc. Just how effective a taped tc would be for BIF on a 40D and 600 f4 I do not know but I guess it would not be any good for BIF (in this respect the 30D was far better than the 40D when using with taped tc's)

A few thoughts:

1/ The 1.4x TC shouldnt lead to poor images. The image below was shot with the 500/4 + 1.4x and I have quite a few BIF shots taken with the 500 and 2x. With a TC, the lens will be a little slow to acquire focus but once it does, the tracking works quite well.
http://www.photosafariindia.com/galleries/khichan/page001.html
I rarely shoot my 500 without a TC (usually 2x, at that).

2/ If you are shooting tripod-mounted and are photographing birds flying at typical distances and speeds, 1/250 ought be to be more than adequate at giving you sharp shots. Still, higher speeds never hurt.

3/ Practice. Sounds like a terrible cliche but really, learning to follow the birds in a smooth easy trajectory is the key. Once you do that, you'll find that you get a very high % of keepers.

4/ As Tannin said, increasing your DOF (especially for frame-filling birds) and activating all AF points is the big thing from a technical point of view.

Cheers,
Vandit

mike nesbitt said:

Thanks a million gents.
I have been back out this afternoon and implemented several of the changes, as recommended by Tannin,Adrian et al.
I had a lot more success today in that the percentage of keepers has shot up and some are almost sharp.
I haven't had time to digest the reply from T Dodd but it looks quite deep and I shall give it a coat of looking at!!!
Attached is one of todays efforts, I cant fathom out how to attach thumbnails ..........so here it is.

Any more info will be gratefully received.

Click to expand...

Hi Mike,
Cracking shot! i dream of getting shots like that.
Cheers
Brian

vkalia said:

A few thoughts, some of which may gently disagree with the excellent advice you have received in this thread:

1/ The 1.4x TC shouldnt lead to poor images. The image below was shot with the 500/4 + 1.4x and I have quite a few BIF shots taken with the 500 and 2x. With a TC, the lens will be a little slow to acquire focus but once it does, the tracking works quite well.
http://www.photosafariindia.com/galleries/khichan/page001.html
I rarely shoot my 500 without a TC (usually 2x, at that).

2/ If you are shooting tripod-mounted and are photographing birds flying at typical distances and speeds, 1/250 ought be to be more than adequate at giving you sharp shots. Still, higher speeds never hurt.

3/ Practice. Sounds like a terrible cliche but really, learning to follow the birds in a smooth easy trajectory is the key. Once you do that, you'll find that you get a very high % of keepers.

4/ As Tannin said, increasing your DOF (especially for frame-filling birds) and activating all AF points is the big thing from a technical point of view.

Cheers,
Vandit

Click to expand...

Thanks vandit.
On point 1, I had already taken the decision to do away with the 1.4x. It just didn't work for me. I think that was a huge factor in the large increase in keepers I later achieved.
Point 3, Couldn't agree more.
Point 4, I was going to and use all AF points. yesterday but a thick mist prevented any photography
Mike

Claymore said:

Hi Mike,
Cracking shot! i dream of getting shots like that.
Cheers
Brian

Click to expand...

Thanks Brian.
I was pleased myself, it wouldn't have been possible but for this thread. I'm a bit of an "all the gear no idea" guy at the moment but I have learned a lot from this!!!